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Sergeant Vaathan
23-08-2007, 15:29
Now that I have a sizeable 40k army, I'm starting a wood elves army. I was reading the codex and wardancers sounded pretty good. I want to know from people who have used them if they are pwn'age in combat?

theunwantedbeing
23-08-2007, 15:35
It's not a codex,its an armybook.

As for wardancers,well they are fairly expensive but the models are damned cool and they have the potential to be increibly nasty with the various dances they get.
Smallish units of them tend to work the best(as they arent too costly for what they are able to do) think no more than about 12 of them tops.

What other sorts of things were you thinking about wanting to field alongside them?

King Thurgun
23-08-2007, 16:04
Pwn'age would be the proper word to use

However, they are 6 points more than dryads, who can be counted upon to reliably do what Wardancers do, which is to skirmish, dish out a lot of wounds, and generally slice and dice their way to victory as long as they're not fighting ranked units. Dryads are much more survivable too, so usually they're the better choice.

That being said, Wardancers are supremely cool and if you really need something killed, they're the ones to do it. With a 10 man unit led by a hero they can dish a disgusting 5 Str 5 attacks and 19 Str 4 attacks, with their insane weapon skill, or you can halve that number and make them all killing blow. Bye bye chaos knights. Their strike first dance isn't so bad either, especially if you know you're going to lose and just want to take something down with you.

All in all, they're fragile as hell but the dances make them flexible and in the right situations they will kill everything.

Putty
23-08-2007, 17:27
When i was a noob wood elf, i would get my wardancers to do a frontal charge. that is wrong wrong wrong... because WDs are only S4 on the charge and depending on which dance you use (i usually use storm of blades) i usually can't kill the entire unit i charge or even cause them to flee.

furthermore, because WE is a low model / high pointage army, there is a chance (good chance if you're me) to fail your combat resolution test.

hence, always commit WDs when you're sure you are gonna win that combat.

the best way to use WDs is to flank charge the enemy. let dryads take the frontal charge instead. Like what King Thurgun said, their great WS allows them to hit often, however, after the 1st round of combat, WDs become soft because their S drops to 3.

WDs may hit alot, but they don't wound as often as you like. Even if you choose Whirling death, you average only 1 DB per attack and your other S3 attacks just bounce of enemy units, especially if your facing armored ones.

It is something generally frustrating when your playing a WE army.

The forest spirits (Dryads, treeman, treefolk) have S4 - 6 and a bunch of other perks which pretty much tempted alot of WE players to go forest spirit heavy.

most WE players would spend points only on glade guards, maybe a unit of glade riders and two units of wardancers.

but most of their points will be dedicated to dryads, treeman(men) and warhawk riders or great eagle.

usually WE players would field 2 wardancer units. each unit would have between 7 - 9 models.

to be honest, WDs are well loved because the wood elf army doesn't have anything else as good to be used as a hammer. of course this is arguable because there are wildriders (mounted versions but less uber version of wardancers, treekin and to an extend, glade guards)

but be warned, the woodelf army is hard to master. its an army with a high learning curve. you'll be daunted in the beginning by the fragile T3, T4 majorityly non armored units. and the majorityily S3 attacks.

sometimes i wonder to myself if the army should be renamed to Woodkin army because alot of players favor the forest spirit units alot more. ;)

Glorfindel
23-08-2007, 17:48
what the use of flanking? they are skirmishers, they don't negate flanks? so the max is +1 combat resolation for flanking itself.

Btw wardancers can be real killers and are a very versatile unit that can deal with a broad spectrum of enemies.

RavenBloodwind
23-08-2007, 17:53
Much of what's posted above is very accurate.

Personally I don't find dryads superior to wardancers, but that's just me.

In reality, coming from a 40k background wardancers (and dryads) are likely to be the troops that behave most like what you're already accustomed to. They charge in any direction due to skirmish so facing, lines of sight and issues of wheeling and the like won't be an issue.

As the good dwarf king pointed out, a unit of wardancers can dish out an insane number of S4 attacks on the charge which can often break a lesser unit. The subsequent S3 is a wholly different issue though. Try not to use wardancers to get 'stuck in'. They should charge and destroy much like a cavalry unit would.

Putty makes an equally valid point though, NEVER charge the front of a ranked unit with skirmishers. Since you are relying on kills to win, you'll really appreciate having that +1 CR for flanking.

pcgamer72
23-08-2007, 19:14
what the use of flanking? they are skirmishers, they don't negate flanks? so the max is +1 combat resolation for flanking itself.

Btw wardancers can be real killers and are a very versatile unit that can deal with a broad spectrum of enemies.

I know one of the main reasons I aim for flank charges with my Wardancers is to avoid enemy characters. Running your opponent's uber character down before he even gets to attack doesn't make him happy.

Zoolander
23-08-2007, 19:50
Wardancers rock, and are worth every point. If you get the charge off, which you should, they can be devastating.

Anardakil
23-08-2007, 21:57
Tandem charging should be the key ;)

Highborn
24-08-2007, 03:41
what the use of flanking? they are skirmishers, they don't negate flanks? so the max is +1 combat resolation for flanking itself.

Btw wardancers can be real killers and are a very versatile unit that can deal with a broad spectrum of enemies.


I tend to go for flanks because they have a lower armour save (no parry), less attacks back (less models, no spears, no champion) and typically won't have an uber-killy character. Wood Elves don't have much to break ranks anyway, but on a flank wardancers make up for not breaking ranks with sheer killiness and less attacks back on them.

I'm testing out a unit of 5 naked dancers and a unit of 8 with command, and I'm liking it. The unit of 5 is a great little throwaway that dishes some serious damage to other skirmishers or hitting flanks where you don't get more than 5 in contact anyway, and costs only 90 points. The unit of 8 is a more serious combat unit, and combined with any other unit in the army will slaughter most infantry.

SlaaneshSlave
24-08-2007, 06:20
As a WE opponent, I have yet to figure out how to combat WD's.

My best recommendation is hope your opponent makes a bad charge...

This is an obtuse way of saying, "Take all the wardancers you can afford".

D-Archangel
24-08-2007, 13:54
WD are one of the (if not the) best units available to WE. of course you need to pull of a dual charge (preferably with something in the flank that negates ranks) but that's the deal with the whole army.

and WD are also preferable to dryads, cause they can include a WD highborn/noble in their ranks, and combined with Annoyance of Netlings (enemy needs 6's to hit in challenge) can give a lot of lord characters a real headache.

and, there's also the psychology effect. most opponents know WD are the *****, so will try and avoid them, which could work in your advantage

Sergeant Vaathan
24-08-2007, 15:29
This clears a lot up for me. I'll definetly have a couple squads of WD in my army. As for the rest of it, I was thinking a couple squads of glade guard, a couple scout squads, one squad of dryads, one squad of waywatchers, and either some tree kin or wild riders or more dryads for close combat. The main idea I want is to be a mostly shooty army, 'cause thats what wood elves are best at. As for the lords and heroes, a sorcerer of some sort, and probably a decked out highborn added to one of my squads.

King Thurgun
24-08-2007, 16:25
They're not squads, they're units! Er, Warbands... kindreds... something. Wood Elves are not organized enough to have squads!

Thats a lot of stuff it sounds like you want to take but its a good combination. Make sure to take relatively small units of Scouts, as they are mostly there to march block and generally be a nuisance, their Str3 shots wont do much. Waywatchers are awesome and if you put a hero with the Hail of Doom arrow with them, their survivability is greatly increased. Once had a unit of 8 with a hero get charged by 10 Cold One Knights, they stand and shoot, hero uses hail of doom arrow, and 5 Cold Ones died and the rest panicked!

As for a highborn, consider taking him as a Wardancer Lord (if Wardancer lords can be the general... can't remember if there's a rule about that). This guy is absolutely sick, as he has 5 Str 5 Attacks on the charge with his wardancer weapons, 6 if you use the Attack dance, and make sure to get him those Blades of Loec, as those rerolled wounds are awesome, especially with the killing blow dance. What really makes wardancer heroes great for wardancer units is that when they use their always strike first dance (The Voldemort dance...), the heroes only lose one attack and so add a lot to the survivabliity of you wardancer units.

As for your other combat units, i would pick small units of wild/glade riders. The only instance where you actually DO want skirmishers charging a front rank is when you have rank-bonus-cancelling fast cavalry supporting them with a flank charge. I would say one glade rider unit per wardancer unit and just use them in concert.

Sergeant Vaathan
24-08-2007, 19:21
Yeah, I think I'll put a hero in a wardancer unit. Maybe that and a spellweaver for my lords and heroes. I wont go too heavy on one type of unit so I can get a feel for how all the units work. This has been very insightful.