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View Full Version : For those of you who like the new Chaos Codex.....



dcikgyurt
24-08-2007, 06:06
Okay, I've had enough of the all the posters on the other chaos threads giving us guys who like the new codex a hard time. So here it is, a thread to discuss what you like about the codex and the armylists/strategies/tactics you are thinking of using.

And please guys, if you don't like the new codex, please go back to your own thread rather than spamming this one up with "Wah, my DP is nerfed!!!11!!!1"

And with that said guys, lets bring it.

dybbukdude
24-08-2007, 06:10
dude this is like the other than those who like new codex just different
the codex really isnt that bad just not that good

BadAssBerzerker
24-08-2007, 06:18
I love the new Codex. I think it is safe to say that GW is making good on there word, that they are taking 40k in a whole different direction. Yes some stuff is nurfed and toned down, but I think it is for the best. All they have done is simplyfied it and made writing up a list easyer.

Their are just to many "Power Gamers" out there. Don't get me wrong you guys have your place in the GW world just as much as the other guy, but please get over it... Rules will change... its just the name of the game. After all people frowned at the new Warhammer when it first reared its ugly head, as well as 40k 3rd edition. Look at it now.. people got use to it and stood by GW's side dispite the changes made. I say lets give it a chance & here's to good gaming in the future..

Sovereign
24-08-2007, 06:42
I like the new Daemon Prince and generic Greater Daemon. I don't intend to take Lash, because I think it's too expensive.

I have no problem with Fire Frenzy on my Dread, as it's only likely to happen once per game on average.

I like that Chosen can still take Las/Plas as 5 models, and get Infiltrate.

I'm totally OK with the new CSM, but I might swap for a unit or two of Berzerkers, even tho it would drive the model count down farther ...

I love the simplified Raptors. 20 pts each, with access to Plasma and Melta, and Flamers? Awesome!

I have no problem with the changes to my Defilers. I'll probably drop a weapon system (or two) for more Attacks.

I don't mind losing the Iron Warriors cheese, as I gained a lot of options that I didn't have before, namely the extra Raptors, along with the extra HQs and Troops options.

Overall, this is very good for my CSM army.

sebster
24-08-2007, 06:57
I like the fact that the troop choices are worthwhile because of the troops themselves, not the heavy weapon they’re toting. I like the cheaper rhinos. I like the fact that most of the devastating abilities available rely on using two, three or four units in conjunction. I like number of units that are effective in multiple roles, most notably CSMs, defilers and havocs.

I really like the idea of a standard gun line, but with most every unit geared for close combat when the enemy reaches your lines. I can see ten man marine units being taken here, the heavy weapon as a nice bonus while you wait for the enemy to reach your lines, then assaulting with 10 men with 3 attacks each on the charge. With heavy weapons options consisting of havocs, obliterators and defilers, they can all get stuck in as well. The problem would come with taking on other shooting lists, as the concept is somewhat dependant on the other guy coming towards you.

Mostly, though, I think we’ll see rhino mounted troops charging up and letting out either CSMs, Khorne Bezerkers or Plague Marines, who then unleash rapid fire goodness, with more shooting and assault to follow after that. You can back it up with a pair of daemon princes or a sorcerer, with infiltrating chosen decked out with special weapons to really annoy your opponent. Your anti-tank would come in the form of obliterators and havocs. Vindicators, raptors and CSM bikes could all fill support roles, depending on the preference of the player.

I think leash armies will be very common, though it will be interesting to see how these lists develop. Daemon princes seem to be everyone’s choice right now, but those guys are pretty killable, and once they’re in melee you can lash anyone anymore. I suspect sorcerers hidden in decent sized blocks of troops will be more likely, and then you’ve got to ask yourself if its worth taking two such guys for the full leash effect.

byteboy
24-08-2007, 06:58
I like the fact I won't have to spend a dime on anything new for my Thousand Sons except the army book. I won't comment on my thoughts about the book, however I do like that I have finally found a use for my 3rd Ed Thralls (will be counts as Possessed) and my 6 WHFB Ushabti Spawn (will counts as Obliterators).

Hellebore
24-08-2007, 07:10
I may play the Thousand Sons army that has been sitting under my table for about 8 years unassembled.

I like that the army list is concise and smooth. Most things seem to have a place.


As an aside, what I like about the chaos codex and the DA/BA ones before it is that they have cut down on the absurd amount of unit special rules available. Now when you have a unit with a Universal Special rule it is ACTUALLY special.

EDIT:
I like the fact I won't have to spend a dime on anything new for my Thousand Sons except the army book. I won't comment on my thoughts about the book, however I do like that I have finally found a use for my 3rd Ed Thralls (will be counts as Possessed) and my 6 WHFB Ushabti Spawn (will counts as Obliterators).

Byteboy, those are some great Counts As ideas! Have you thought up reasons for them? Perhaps the thralls were used to cast a spell, and it went wrong, possessing them with a daemon instead? It's always much cooler to have a story behind unique units I find.


Hellebore

One_Second_of_Insanity
24-08-2007, 07:54
Well I will be getting into this army now as well, using the old chaos androids from space crusade as counts as thousand sons, should be a nicely done amry with dreads as obliterators and actual dreads. (yes darkseer, stolen a little from your classic army but i had to do it with all the minis i have lying around)

Tulun
24-08-2007, 08:24
I think the versatility of the new standard CSM marine is pretty crazy. They can shoot well (if they are at 10 men, a heavy weapon, special, and aspiring champ) and assault well with that set up. It's not cheap (since 10 men is mandatory for the Heavy weapon, and prices have gone up), but you can create a unit that can fit both assaulting and shooting roles, so your opponent will matter a bit less for your 'tactical' squads. This, in my opinion, creates the 'perfect' marine; he can shoot and assault. Nurgle is a more expensive extension of this, as is Slaanesh. Thousand Sons both diverge from this, going for more potent gun (sacrifice of heavy weapons of course) and Khorne for pure assault, obviously.

The list shouldn't make anyone too unhappy, since powerful lists are still possible. A deadly Flying Daemon Prince is CHEAP in comparison to 3rd ed, and you can have two. Comparing OLD costs to new ones, it gets gifts for free; if not mandatory, but they come built it for many points cheaper. This includes Daemonic Rune. Oh, and it can hold objectives now... >.> Don't be surprised to see 1 of these every game against Chaos (Though many may opt for crazy Chaos Lords or Special Characters; Kharn got way better, for example).

I do think the Chaos codex has some definite cheese factors in it that will likely be over abused in the years to come, though. Lash of Submission IS worded so you can move the unit however you wish; if this wasn't intended, it'll need to be FAQed. Bunching up units, moving them out of cover in the process, followed by a Defiler (even better now, even without indirect; chaos doesn't need to cower behind buildings to win like a Guardsman or Tau...) or Vindicator or Oblits. Lash is also relatively inexpensive if you already take Daemon Princes; the ability to move a unit any way you want is definitely worth the tag (it really isn't that high). Moving a unit, positioning it for an assault (hey, put that power fist guy way at the back so it can't strike for a round... or throw that slow Ork unit 7+" away, pushing an assault back another turn), throwing them out from an objective last turn. It has so many uses, that if Chaos is remotely popular in your area, psychic defense may now become mandatory, if your army even gets a way to defend itself. Going second may become a big deal against Chaos, so they will have much greater difficulty pushing you off objectives... The other powers, though less deadly, are all worth taking. Watch out Monoliths, Wind of Chaos can get you ;)

For the most part, this codex is 95% win. Parts of it really make you wonder, though, what they were thinking...

Hellebore
24-08-2007, 08:45
With the Lash, I would probably have made it 2D6 and a scatterdice and only on a HIT do you get to choose which direction they move.

Another idea for a Slanneshi power is one that makes the unit count as in difficult terrain and count as moving even if they don't - a spell that causes them to thrash around in ecstatic pain thus making it both hard to move properly, or aim their weapons.

A Tzeentchian one would be to have a similar thing to the Veil of Tears, but cast on an enemy unit instead. Pick a unit within los and that unit needs to roll 2d6 x2 to see any chaos units. Perhaps even have them auto fail target priority as well...

Hellebore

byteboy
24-08-2007, 09:49
EDIT:

Byteboy, those are some great Counts As ideas! Have you thought up reasons for them? Perhaps the thralls were used to cast a spell, and it went wrong, possessing them with a daemon instead? It's always much cooler to have a story behind unique units I find.


Hellebore
*Note:LONG POST AHEAD, GRAB SOME POPCORN AND GET COMFY.

Hellebore: Well, I converted 7 Necron Warriors. It was around Halloween about 2 years ago (I was about half way done with my Sons) and my army needed something bright added to it. I kept analysing the potential conversion factor of the Necron models and started tinkering with them.

I came up with a psuedo Halloween/Techno Egyptian/Frankensteins Monster kind of theme for them. I took the Warrior and painted it Fiery Orange, highlighted the symbol in the center of its chest Goblin Green and the spinal column Goblin Green as well.

I did not use the Right Hand that holds the gun but replaced it with a Tyranid Hormagaunt Scything Talon and painted the blade Chainmail. For the Left Hand, I painted it up to look like a bloodied stump. (the model uses a ball/socket deal to attatch the Left hand to the Right hand that is holding the gun).

So imagine a Necron Warrior, painted Fiery Orange (even brightend up with Gloss varnish later), posed to look malformed/twisted in Warp Energy. Toss in the fact it no longer has eyes (just bloody eye sockets), no Left hand (just a bloody stump), and a Daemonic looking claw for a Right Hand.

I took the Necrons green luminescient rod for its gun, and cut it in half. I took those halves and glued them between the shoulder blades, on the back of the model. The model looks like it has two power conduits sticking out of its back, harnessing Warp Energy.
-----------
Now for my Thralls/Possesed background:
Being ever so loyal to Tzeentch and willing to do anything to please The Great Betrayer aka Lord of Change, many people wanted to be in Tzeentches good graces.

Sooooo, the Scything Talon represents Tzeentches praise for sacrificing their Left Hand (coincidently the Ushabti that looks like a Hawk, has a severed left hand dangling on a chain.....) and thusly giving them a Daemonic "gift".

Next, Tzeentch asks them to pluck their eyes out for "immortality". Well, this is gladly done, however "immortality" is just a way of giving your soul totally to him and now you are his puppet. Upon plucking their eyes, their cries of pain and the final act of giving up their soul, open a doorway for a Daemon to possess them.

However, the Daemon is still weak and requires time to get stronger, so they seal the follower into a techno organic pod(it's actually a pumpkin,remember, this was around Halloween). Over time, the Daemon changes the form of the host. Flesh is melted away, the fires of the Warp engulfing the body, giving off an eerie orange glow from inside the pod. As the pod matures, Chaotic Techpriests begin implanting the Daemon with "warp conduits".

Warp Conduits give the Host its life energy. Tzeentch blesses his servants with the ability to withstand enormous amounts of punishment before returning back to the Warp. Since the Warp is ever changing, so does the power being fed into the Daemon Host (thusly making them Possessed, having random abilities.)
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As for the Ushabti being Obliterators: game wise- it's about the same size as an Oblit and I needed to fill a hole in since my Dread went to Elites. Background wise- more than likely it's a larger Daemon,aeons old, using archaic,magical weaponry. It's easy to imagine them wielding fiery weapons of doom that have different effects & being extremely hard to kill.

(On a side note, it's easy to manipulate Magic into many things and Tzeentch has alot of Magical background)

Any more questions on all my zany ideas for my army, feel free to ask.
I must admit, I like keeping my brain thinking about lots of things when it comes to all my armies. This did allow me to shift units/models to be useable, because if I had to buy new models,they would stick out really badly since my paint is discontinued.

I am still not pleased on things with this new book, (which I won't go into), but I have such a vivid imagination, I can BS "counts as" till the cows come home if I need to ;)

Damien 1427
24-08-2007, 12:07
I daresay those who rolled Thousand Sons will be giggling. And the Codex has a nice production value, with a lot of new art, new background, and plenty of suggestions for starting your own themed warband, instead of merely picking one of the nine or the Astral Claws. For the modeller, or the fluff nut in me, it's nice. That's why it won't be sealed away along with the original third edition book, never to be gazed upon by mortal eyes ever again.

I think my thoughts on the list itself are already around.

Hellebore
24-08-2007, 12:22
Nice ideas byteboy. It's always good to see new ways to represent old troops on the tabletop, and the ideas you've got are cooler than the ones GW uses. :cool:

Hellebore

One_Second_of_Insanity
24-08-2007, 22:27
I would love to see a couple of pics byteboy, the counts as do sound great

bhusus
24-08-2007, 22:51
Generic Greater Daemons? I didn't even know there were any; are there new models being released or is this a conversion thing? Of interest to me, do Chaos Tactical squads still get two assault weapons? Also, from what I've heard, I like that the Chosen options have been simplified; while I was able to make units from it before, it was such a mess - and dreads are finally elite!

Damien 1427
24-08-2007, 23:10
and dreads are finally elite!

Mores the pity. They're Elite for Loyalists because they're undying heroes, enshrined as mechanical embodiments of Duty, Faith and Zeal able to carry out the Emperors Will from beyond the grave. It is one of the highest honours they can recieve, to be an immortal hero of the Chapter.
For Traitors they're barely-sane killing machines that need to be disconnected and chained up when they're not in battle, and to be stuck in one is only just prefereable to spawndom. They're feared and hated, tolerated only because they're impressive killers and make a useful punishment.

I argue they should have been left as Heavy. And should still be able to be Daemonically Possessed.

Rhamag
24-08-2007, 23:11
I like much of the new codex. In fact the only thing I don't like (sorry O.P!) is that it got released before the Orks...

Very much looking forward to unleashing the shiny new boyz onto the shiny new spikey boyz in January! Much entertainment will ensue.

Merceus
24-08-2007, 23:15
Sure... there I things I dont like... but so much more I do like...

Love the Cult units, all 4, especially cos they are always Troops... and the funky new Psychic powers rock... So do the Special Characters...

My main Beef is with the people complaining about the Dreadnought... I feel more likely to use one now if anything :D

bhusus
25-08-2007, 02:29
Mores the pity. They're Elite for Loyalists because they're undying heroes, enshrined as mechanical embodiments of Duty, Faith and Zeal able to carry out the Emperors Will from beyond the grave. It is one of the highest honours they can recieve, to be an immortal hero of the Chapter.
For Traitors they're barely-sane killing machines that need to be disconnected and chained up when they're not in battle, and to be stuck in one is only just prefereable to spawndom. They're feared and hated, tolerated only because they're impressive killers and make a useful punishment.

I argue they should have been left as Heavy. And should still be able to be Daemonically Possessed.

They were elite because SM had more Heavy choices; the Fluff is only so important for army lists. With chaos also picking up some more heavies (Defiler in 3rd, Vindicator in 4th), it doesn't surprise me that they moved to elite.

Wraithbored
25-08-2007, 02:36
Personally my word bearers won't be hurt much, now I will run a chaos lieutenant with a mark of tzeentch to represent a cursed crozius save, then 4 squads of chaos marines and 4 squads of demons(a unit with 6, 7,8 and of course mr.tzeentchs 9), and 4 vehicles(dread, predator, defiler and a landraider). I will model the minis to look appropriately word bearerish(lots of whfb chaos banners in the squads) and I'll put dirge casters wherever I can(antiimperial religion propaganda). I was a tad disapointed I lost power specific demons but I got over it rather quickly. And my army will have no DP's nor lashes of torment(I want to keep my gaming buddies).

Tulun
25-08-2007, 03:01
And my army will have no DP's nor lashes of torment(I want to keep my gaming buddies).

Lol at this :)

I think Daemon Princes won't be that terrible without a lash, I don't think your buddies will be angry if you fielded one (2 can be nasty in lower points, they are very comparable to Winged tyrants now).

I thought it was kind of sad that Daemons are so generic now; I only had a quick glance, but it even looks like instability is gone... it's kind of a shame, but I guess it improves these daemons a bit.

Vineas
25-08-2007, 05:36
I love the generic daemons as now I can pick up some of those sexy Confrontation daemonic creature/elemental things. Sure not tourney legal but nobody in my circle enforces strict "must be GW models" rule. As long as it looks close to what it should be nobody cares and with Daemons not having any particular look right now that means they can look how I choose them to look. :)

Merceus
25-08-2007, 10:43
Lol at this :)

I think Daemon Princes won't be that terrible without a lash, I don't think your buddies will be angry if you fielded one (2 can be nasty in lower points, they are very comparable to Winged tyrants now).

I thought it was kind of sad that Daemons are so generic now; I only had a quick glance, but it even looks like instability is gone... it's kind of a shame, but I guess it improves these daemons a bit.

yeah... Like a winged tyrant, but with less options, cheaper and more likely to show up on a battlefield...


I love the generic daemons as now I can pick up some of those sexy Confrontation daemonic creature/elemental things. Sure not tourney legal but nobody in my circle enforces strict "must be GW models" rule. As long as it looks close to what it should be nobody cares and with Daemons not having any particular look right now that means they can look how I choose them to look. :)

Exactly, for instance;

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/9042/genericlesserdaemonsp4.jpg

A beastman covered in static grass always works :wtf:

dcikgyurt
25-08-2007, 10:46
I like much of the new codex. In fact the only thing I don't like (sorry O.P!) is that it got released before the Orks...

Very much looking forward to unleashing the shiny new boyz onto the shiny new spikey boyz in January! Much entertainment will ensue.

Don't worry, it's not the actual Codex you're complaining about.

Back on topic.

I'm guessing that by now we've all been through the lists of different daemons we can now field as generic Lesser Daemons (Robots, Rats, Trees Goats, and thats just GW models) and most of these even have options for generic Greater daemons that fit the same theme. I was just wondering what people (other than byteboy and Merceus who've already posted what they're doing) are planning for their generic greater and lesser daemons.