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CHOOBER SNIPES
25-08-2007, 02:32
My long time friend is thinking of (fairly sure) of starting 40K. It would be his first GW game; he doesnt play fantasy or any others,so hes very new. He is set on IG, whatever anybody says bout whats a good starter army, if anyone would contradict him on first army bein IG. Anyway, we were thinking of ways to save money for him, as he is short on cash and he has no job, just allowance and stuff. We came up with the idea of 2 boxes of cadian shock troops, and a 3 hvy weapon box. take one of the four infantry squads and use the hvy weapons that have no crewman to make more hvy teams, that could double as each squads hvy. weapons. in other words, he would have lik three infantry squads with 6-9 hvy teams, he takes the fourth infantry squad and turns them into hvy teams, 30 infantry, 6 2-man hvy teams and maybe 3 more 1 man teams, just tell opponent counted as two. this would depend on what weapons came with it, because we think it comes with all the different hvy weapons, mortars, hvy bolters, autos, and lascannons and missiles, just only enough crewman for 3 squads. then take the last from the infantry turned to heavy squad, who would be a squad officer, into an HQ officer. Then he'd have a force about able to do combat patrols, and still have some options with the hvys. Any ideas or confirmations on whether this would be plausible/a good idea would be greatly appreciated

Ailaros
25-08-2007, 02:51
Yes, this would be a good idea. With 2 boxes of infantry, and a 3-pack of heavy weapons, you can make:

command squad:
JO, 4 guys with grenade launchers

Troops:
Jo, 4 guys with flamers

4x squads with lasgunners and whatever heavy weapons you want.

The only thing you'd need to buy is a blister pack of officers, which, in total, should be like $120 for something like 500 pts. The only problem is if you want two troops choices, in which case you need to scavange 4 guardsmen and an officer...

Xomborg
25-08-2007, 03:09
*Insert comment on Guard being a horrible starting army.*

Now that's out of the way.

In the codex they show a command squad, a platoon, and an armored fist squad.

The biggest problem with starting guard is the obligatory two troops, and one platoon and a AF seems the fasted way to do it. For command squads, do what Ailraos said.

JimmyP0567
25-08-2007, 03:33
Buy a Codex, then a Battle force, then a junior officer blister pack, then add on more Shock troops.

Petronivs
25-08-2007, 03:43
Best starter army is...whatever good deal you can find on E-Bay.

505
25-08-2007, 06:02
I think gaurd is a great starter army. as good as any I say. the big question is armor or not armor. tanks are nice and fill out points pretty quick. however they tend to have giant targets on them (I would love to paint a Russ in white and red concentric circles)....or all infantry ( you do tend to go cross eyed painting 100 men)

anyways using extra guys from shock troop squads works well. also don't glue the AC,HB or LC on the tripod so you can change them out between battles

cuda1179
25-08-2007, 06:17
Adding in a handful of tanks is a VERY easy way to fill up points in a guard army. It is cheap moneywise and they paint up quickly. a couple Leman Russ's, a basilisk, a chimera, and a hellhound will get him to 2000 points in no time.

If your friend needs and bits let me know, I can float him some in the mail.

Chaplain Ark
25-08-2007, 06:26
the only thing i have to say is guard is a more difficult army to play for new people, considering the frailness of the main troop. But i personally say go for it. Plus, if you can, try to convince him to start Vostroyan Firstborn. The Firstborn could use more good Officers in its ranks. I do feel VF are the most underplayed army, albeit the newest (save Chaos and updates)

Axel
25-08-2007, 10:17
I assume the money issue will strike out the Vostroyans.

If you know of any other player out there, take a look at the new company box that comes around and share it. Enough infantry and heavy weapons for around 300€ to start three armies or build one army fully, though admittedly at a hefty price.

xibo
25-08-2007, 10:52
Buy a Codex, then a Battle force, then a junior officer blister pack, then add on more Shock troops.

Codex + Battleforce + Shocktroopers. Then, trade the Leman Russ for a Kimera ( not all that difficult considering it's 5 euros more expensive at GW ) and convert your own officers. Voila, a standard mission IG army. Alternatively trade the russ versus another Shocktroopers box and go for all infantry ( thats 66 Guardsmen with up to 9 HW (without convertig: 3 Autocannons + 3 Missile Launchers w/o stabilizers + 3 Mortars) + 3 Officers) ... THAT is how Guard does 500 points ( Captain+powersword+ret, 2xLieutnand+ret, 2xInf Squad+AC, 3xInf Squad+GL )
This is however a bit more expensive than the openers original approach...
2xShock Troops+1xHWTS = 90 euro here
1xArmy Box( hey it has ruins! the cool ones! )+1xShock Troops+1xFree {Kimera or Shocktroops} = 110 euro here

BTW. Are you sure you want to max on heavy weapons in combat patrol? Grenade Launchers or even flamers are powerfull, too! ( If there is a marine-friend ( no there are no marine players! That is just a rumour! ) that has spare parts, he can convert melta and plasgunners, too )

Some guy (UK)
25-08-2007, 12:08
If you really wanted to get a minimum HQ and two troops, you could just use the stormtrooper doctrine to be able to take squads of stormtroopers that count as troop choices.

That would cost you 55 with a command squad, 67 with the codex.

If you aren't in a rush, then the usual platoon choices are for you.

boogle
25-08-2007, 12:17
As has been said, get the Battleforce to start with, that give you 20 Grunts and 3 heavy weapons, with the spare heavy weapons used to boost the squads (personally i woudl go with 3 Autocannons for the HW Squad and Missile Launchers in the Infantry squads), and the Russ of course. get them painted up and by then you should have enough money to but another box of Cadians, a blister of Special Weapons Trooper and a Blister of Officers, use these to make an armoured fist squad and an HQ and command Squad, then play your 1st game (proxy the chimera at this stage), then month 3, purchase the Chimera and a couple of Sentinels.

If that is more than his allowance can afford, utilise Ebay

ehlijen
25-08-2007, 13:34
The problem about guard is their platoon organisations and how the available boxes just don't match up with that. At the very least you need:
5 man comman squad
5 man command squad and 2 10 man infantry squads
and then one of these:
10 man squad and chimera
5 man command squad and 2 10 man infantry squads again
20 man consript squad

(i'd advise a beginner against using doctrines, which would mean no grenadiers, but it is an option)

The battle force is perfectly sufficient to make:

4 command squad guardsmen
20 infantry squad guardsmen
1 officer (vehicle accesory sprue has enough for that)
1 Tank
with your selection from any of the heavy weapons (but keep the bits as you can make for for support squads later) and flamers and grenade launchers as specials
there will even be enough to make two extra guardsmen (or advisors with some conversion skills)
it the also contains: some terrain bits. half a guardsman (if you don't stick him in the tank turret)

The cheapest way to go about it is I believe:
2 boxes of 20 shock troops
1 box if three weapon teams
a chimera

just over AU$200 and makes a solid 500 pt or combat patrol army.

An alternative is:
3 boxes of shock troops

to make
2 command squads (command and infantry platoon)
2 Infantry squads
20 conscripts
and add 10 more guys to either troops choice
(I would not recommend this approach to a new player though!)

ssgtdude
27-08-2007, 21:27
An IG starting army is no easy task.

A lot of work goes into a guard army for sure. His best bet is to get the army box set. Play a few games. sit down with the players he went up against and revisit the tactics.

An IG army can defeat any army out there, but can also be easily defeated by any army out there as well. It is all in how it is played and what tactics you use. Today I used my 2K list against a 1K Orc and a 1K SM army.

They had first turn and popped my Basilisk, but that only served to make the game a bit slower since I wasn't able to concentrate two ordinance weapons on the Orcs and had to rely on two instead. In the end I was able to pull a win leaving the marine army with just his commander and one terminator. The Orcs were in my line by turn 5, but by then it was a squad of 3 choppas and a squad of 4 choppas.

killa kan kaus
27-08-2007, 22:32
catachan battleforce includes command squad and requires less people to form a platoon

Drogmir
27-08-2007, 23:07
Strange, almost everyone stars with SM.

All I can say is don't ever mention the DKoK and FW ever, until he gets a job or a better allowance.

xibo
28-08-2007, 00:59
catachan battleforce includes command squad and requires less people to form a platoon
AFAIK you have to use the rules from the second printing codex for Catachan Deathworld Vets, too... for codex eye of terror Cadian Shock Troops are also reruled by that ( the psyker's power table, some point cost stuff, max 3 grenadiers instead of 1+ infantry platoons and arbitary count of kasrkin squads, cheaper stormtroopers, no more lasguns for officers/st&kasrkin seargents, sharpshooters skill changed, although everyone is telling nothing changed for cadia )

Strange, almost everyone stars with SM.

All I can say is don't ever mention the DKoK and FW ever, until he gets a job or a better allowance.
Oh but FW Cadians are just so cool, and don't get me started on Ellysians... :cries:



Well, uh.....my Necron Lord has a dual-core processor and 4GB of RAM
I take it that your necron lord has stack corruption caused by spaghetti code and the famous x87 DIV Bug

killa kan kaus
28-08-2007, 07:54
Necrons should have to roll for bsod or skip their first turn because they are compiling.

catdubh
28-08-2007, 11:23
Ebay is the way I did it. If you go for the stuff thats poorly painted it will work out nice and cheap, but you'll have to strip the models. Also may be badly glued and cleaned up. Expect work and you'll not be disappointed.

LR & Bassie Tanks are cheap if poorly painted (may change with Apocalypse due out)

Next the biggest cost with IG is the heavy weapons unless you convert. I get five from the sprue no problem, and have got sprues with just one weapon used for silly money :)

King Thurgun
28-08-2007, 12:26
What I did for my Iguard army was the following:

2 Company Boxes, 1 Heavy Weapons Team, 1 Colonel, 4 Plasmagunners (bits order is your friend).

In total thats about $240 for 1500 points of guard. That gets you your prerequisites: 40 Guardsmen, 6-9 Heavy Weapon Squads, command squad, weapons in squads. I think 2 leman russes for a guard army is a no brainer, so i went with the detachment boxes: you get a tank for free with the savings on the boxed set (as well as some nifty terrain), and, here's the best part, you can make two plastic junior officers using the tank commander heads and torsos that come with the leman russes. Thats $12 you save in addition to the free tank!

You will probably need another troop squad to fill out the command squads and such, but hey, guard are indeed expensive. If you want tanks though, the company boxes are the way to go. If you're going for three russes, get 3 boxes and save $60!

Hulkster
28-08-2007, 12:45
What I am going to do for guard is get the new IG Infantry company, a baslisk squadron and a leman russ squadron and maybe a couple of boxes of karskin.

and some new commisars

Chaplain Ark
28-08-2007, 15:02
i say just go onto ebay. thay have a crapload of stuff , cadian or otherwise, there fro your friend to buy. plus alot of the time, the idiots don't know what there worth and sell em for a fraction of the price. but, sadly, that still leaves the vostroyans high and dry cause i checked and they only sell firstborn regiments of ebay, and the lowest price was 30 dollars (sorry to all i don't know how to convert dollars to pounds.)