Who won't survive The End Times?

Spoilers for The End Times ahead.

Lots of Special Characters have already died in The End Times. I feel like it's safe to say they won't be the only ones. So who else do we think will be finished before The End Times are through?

The pattern I've been noticing relates to the models. I don't think GW was interested in making a new King Louen, Fay Enchantress, or Eltharion model, so why not clean house and get everyone excited at the same time?

Personally I don't think anyone will survive. It's not called the End Times for nothing. The only survivor will be either Nagash or the Daemons of Chaos.

Well.. Archaons title is The Lord of The End Times. So I'm going to infer that he survives and is the prevailing threat during this new @ Midnight setting warhammer is set in now. I conclude to this because up until this time his title has been meaningless and odd since up until now there has been no End Times, for him to lord over.. Unless it's a title given through prophecy.
I doubt it, but it would be great if they redid his model like the new mortriarchs (spelling?). And just made him much larger, and of course make his mount suitably more crazy and chaosy than a Clydesdale with spikes coming out of him.

I'd also like to point out that perhaps none of those awesome dread fleet captains have been reported dead, that I can think of. So at least a fragment of Araby could still live on...

I would love for GW to have the balls to kill archaon, they won't but that would be sweet

Enviado desde mi Nexus 5 mediante Tapatalk

Well, with estalia and tilea down, I'm guessing we'll probably lose cathay, nippon, ind and araby too... as for playable factions? What worked for the tomb kings (joining the undead legion) could also work for the beastmen (joining the chaos legion?).

I think most 6th edition or older special characters will die, as I'm not sure GW is interested in replacing them and would rather give them a fitting end. Gorthor, Skrolk, Oxyotl, Galrauch, to name few. Also characters like King Alrik and Prince Imrik who were removed from the army book might go down. I also think Malekith is not off the table either.

I would be surprised if all the major Vampire characters survive this. I think Mannfred might get squished by Nagash eventually.

Apart from that, I can pretty much guarantee random Empire halberdier #157 won't make it out alive.

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Originally Posted by Warpsoul

I think Mannfred might get squished by Nagash eventually.

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I'd much rather see Vlad pull it off.
Significantly more entertaining character and I'm incredibly happy to see him make a return, Manfred has made it obvious he wants Vlad killing as soon as possible - and I know who I'd rather see live.

Games Workshop

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Originally Posted by Lord Hurin

Games Workshop

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This is perfect.

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Originally Posted by Gekiganger

I'd much rather see Vlad pull it off.
Significantly more entertaining character and I'm incredibly happy to see him make a return, Manfred has made it obvious he wants Vlad killing as soon as possible - and I know who I'd rather see live.

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Truth.

As for the 'Games Workshop' comment above, shame on you! :mad:

Oh, come on I was just saying what everyone else was thinking! :P

Obviously I hope this isn't the case, but with so much on the line story-wise, it can only go one of two ways: spectacularly well or spectacularly disasterously. It won't be a fizzle-out like the last Storm of Chaos, it'll either be "Oh **** yeah, that was AWESOME! I can't wait to see what they're coming up with now!" or "Seriously, two of my armies and all of my favourite characters were wiped out for THAT?! Guess it's time to eBay the armies..."

So far it seems like it's worked out ok for them. I was totally scared off with the advent of 8th and shelved my armies, selling off a big chunk. This has gotten me interested in revitalizing at least one of them. Only time will tell how long the renewed interest lasts though, as I'm a little reluctant to leap in head-first with so many unknowns on the horizon.

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Originally Posted by Lord Hurin

Games Workshop

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Haha maybe. I think GW will survive due to the infinite number of people who think space marines are awesome. it could be the End of Times for warhammer fantasy though. I think 9th will possibly be the last edition for a long time. The setting took 2-3 decades to build up and the various pieces fitted together, well more or less, mostly though things were nice and open ended with open possibility for anyone against anyone (for a while SOC disrupted that but luckily they decided to write it out). GW will get a short-term windfall from people buying the EoT book, but in the long run I fear that these changes will make the setting poorer.

I think people are seriously over reacting and over estimating GW's willingness to completely destroy thier fluff for no gain.
Some characters will die, maybe others come back, and others might be invented, but I don't think the final damage will be enough to end the story.
Also, I doubt they will even mention the other human countries of the world like Cathay and such. They spent so meny years ignoring them completely I think they belive most players won't even remember they exist.
And if they would touch upon that it'll have to be something other then invasion. As Chathay is massive and has huge armies at its desposal, even bigger then the Empire from what I remember.

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Originally Posted by Grok

I think people are seriously over reacting and over estimating GW's willingness to completely destroy thier fluff for no gain.
Some characters will die, maybe others come back, and others might be invented, but I don't think the final damage will be enough to end the story.
Also, I doubt they will even mention the other human countries of the world like Cathay and such. They spent so meny years ignoring them completely I think they belive most players won't even remember they exist.
And if they would touch upon that it'll have to be something other then invasion. As Chathay is massive and has huge armies at its desposal, even bigger then the Empire from what I remember.

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They do mention Cathay in first Nagash book...

Also they're not destroying anything for "no gain". It's to create something new moving forwards and it's working so far.

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Originally Posted by tristessa

They do mention Cathay in first Nagash book...

Also they're not destroying anything for "no gain". It's to create something new moving forwards and it's working so far.

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I stand corracted on the first part then, but I still can't see any good thing that can come out of destroying several decades worth of story. Changing and evolving I can see, but it hardly needs a full blown new slate to be achived.

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Originally Posted by Grok

I stand corracted on the first part then, but I still can't see any good thing that can come out of destroying several decades worth of story. Changing and evolving I can see, but it hardly needs a full blown new slate to be achived.

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Decades worth of story? Cathay? Hah.

Same thing goes for Tilea, Estalia and unfortunately; Araby.

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Originally Posted by Grok

As Chathay is massive and has huge armies at its desposal, even bigger then the Empire from what I remember.

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The first merit badge in Warhammer is "Killed a Dwarf Hold", analogously Cathay's size and might is irrelevant - it will be killed off on a whim, to aggrandize some two-bit villain (Daemons? Greenskins? Ogres, in a final act of revenge for the Maw meteor?).

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Originally Posted by BattleofLund

The first merit badge in Warhammer is "Killed a Dwarf Hold", analogously Cathay's size and might is irrelevant - it will be killed off on a whim, to aggrandize some two-bit villain (Daemons? Greenskins? Ogres, in a final act of revenge for the Maw meteor?).

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The Cathayans are, thankfully, being taken out by a people far more numerous than even they: the Kurgan.

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Originally Posted by Kotrag

Decades worth of story? Cathay? Hah.

Same thing goes for Tilea, Estalia and unfortunately; Araby.

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I was obviously talking about the entire Warhammer world, not just Cathay.
I still don't think they will completely erase everything but I'm starting to run out of reasons for that belief... :P

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Originally Posted by Grok

I was obviously talking about the entire Warhammer world, not just Cathay.
I still don't think they will completely erase everything but I'm starting to run out of reasons for that belief... :P

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They're obviously not destroying "decades worth of history" by writing down that those places have been overrun by Skaven or whatever, because those specific areas have contributed little to nothing to Warhammer's lore. Places like the Imperial provinces, Kislev, Bretonnia and Norsca are the human lands you ought to look to to find places that are of some worth to the Warhammer world, and they're all fine.

In all honesty, putting those other areas in states of existential crisis would probably be rather rejuvenating for their lore.

This I have no problem with, but it seems meny people belive that this campaign marks the closiour of the Warhammer game and so will be the end of all factions and thier lands. This is what I disagree with.

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Originally Posted by Grok

This I have no problem with, but it seems meny people belive that this campaign marks the closiour of the Warhammer game and so will be the end of all factions and thier lands. This is what I disagree with.

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You honestly think this is going to be the end of Warhammer Fantasy? This is not how a game looks when it's winding down. Go look at the Hobbit line if you want to see a game in its death throes.

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Originally Posted by Kotrag

You honestly think this is going to be the end of Warhammer Fantasy? This is not how a game looks when it's winding down. Go look at the Hobbit line if you want to see a game in its death throes.

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Actually its the exact opossit, I do not belive they will stop supporting Warhammer Fantasy. Which is why I belive the End Times will end with errr... not the end of time... :p

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Originally Posted by Kotrag

Places like the Imperial provinces, Kislev, Bretonnia and Norsca are the human lands you ought to look to to find places that are of some worth to the Warhammer world, and they're all fine

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Erm.

Quite a lot of the Empire's taken a kicking, too.

I believe that the end times books will end with pretty much an apocalypse. In the end someone will do something to save the survivors ala the elven vortex leading into 9th where conditions have changed and factions have shifted. The new 9th books would then be new empires or factions growing out of the turbulent times like the empire did after the first time. The bad guys will have lost but be in a stronger position to wreak havoc. Older books would still work until updated representing small survivors of the other factions that stuck to the old ways. That's my guess.

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Originally Posted by Hawkkf

I believe that the end times books will end with pretty much an apocalypse.

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Wait there are more books coming? I thought it was just the Nagash one.

I am still not convinced by all this advancement. GW will get a short-term profit spike from the Nagash book-sales, but long term I am just not convinced the new state of affairs within the setting is going to be better than the one which already existed.

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Originally Posted by Hawkkf

I believe that the end times books will end with pretty much an apocalypse. In the end someone will do something to save the survivors ala the elven vortex leading into 9th where conditions have changed and factions have shifted. The new 9th books would then be new empires or factions growing out of the turbulent times like the empire did after the first time. The bad guys will have lost but be in a stronger position to wreak havoc. Older books would still work until updated representing small survivors of the other factions that stuck to the old ways. That's my guess.

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So you think they'll pull a Heroes of Might and Magic IV on the setting? I'm not quite sure it ended very well...

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Originally Posted by Athelassan

Erm.

Quite a lot of the Empire's taken a kicking, too.

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Erengrad is still around, the Ice Queen is apparently going to retaliate somehow. The Kislevites really haven't been thrashed the way they ought to have been.

How Erengrad is still standing when Kislev couldn't even survive is strange, of course. Especially considering it was perhaps the first Kislevite city to fall during the Storm of Chaos.

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Originally Posted by Craze_b0i

Wait there are more books coming? I thought it was just the Nagash one.

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Seriously? The rumor mill has been absolutely awash with there being 4 books: undead, elves, chaos, and skaven.

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Originally Posted by Kotrag

Erengrad is still around, the Ice Queen is apparently going to retaliate somehow. The Kislevites really haven't been thrashed the way they ought to have been.
How Erengrad is still standing when Kislev couldn't even survive is strange, of course. Especially considering it was perhaps the first Kislevite city to fall during the Storm of Chaos.

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Are we reading the same book? Basically all of Kislev has been swept aside by the chaos onslaught as Karl Franz is like "Ooooh crap" upon hearing the news. How much more of a thrashing do you want them to take?

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Originally Posted by Gekiganger

I'd much rather see Vlad pull it off.
Significantly more entertaining character and I'm incredibly happy to see him make a return, Manfred has made it obvious he wants Vlad killing as soon as possible - and I know who I'd rather see live.

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Agreed, Vlad is just a lot more interesting as a character.

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Originally Posted by Horus38

Seriously? The rumor mill has been absolutely awash with there being 4 books: undead, elves, chaos, and skaven.

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Wait, the elves are next? I thought it was Chaos next.

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Originally Posted by Kotrag

Wait, the elves are next? I thought it was Chaos next.

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I was just listing off the speculated/rumored books, not their order. I agree that chaos appears to be next given the rumors that popped up today regarding the big chaos wave release.

I'm hoping it is the end of the story, but not the end of the game.

I'd like lore of 9th edition to read like the bible. We start with a the Genesis of the Old Ones and we end with Revelations of the End Times. Then we're free to set our games at any point between those dates, with the caveat that the miniature range is designed primarily to represent units from about 2300-2500 as factions like the Empire were still barbarians during the reign of Sigmar, etc.

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Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton

I'm hoping it is the end of the story, but not the end of the game.

I'd like lore of 9th edition to read like the bible. We start with a the Genesis of the Old Ones and we end with Revelations of the End Times. Then we're free to set our games at any point between those dates, with the caveat that the miniature range is designed primarily to represent units from about 2300-2500 as factions like the Empire were still barbarians during the reign of Sigmar, etc.

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Sigmar era Empire is just a reskinned Warriors of Chaos army ;)

I would imagine Erengrad fell when the bastion collapsed.

One thing I started to get suspicious of when reading Nagash was: if you are a Finecast model, things are probably going to go bad for you. I'm less worried about the direction of the fluff now that I've read the book. Are they killing people? Yes. Are they going way off the rails? Not really. At the end of this we'll have fluff justification for a bunch of armies being able to ally with each other. Undead can fight with Empire or Chaos, Elves can fight together, etc.

I don't think Archaon is safe actually. Same with Valten. What I can't decide on is if Karl Franz is going to make it, or give up the throne.

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Originally Posted by Horus38

Seriously? The rumor mill has been absolutely awash with there being 4 books: undead, elves, chaos, and skaven.

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Been a while since I checked in there.

Edit: Just checked it, I see one of the OPs mentions elves and demons. If there is anything more in there then Darnok hasn't updated it.

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Originally Posted by giant stegadon

One thing I started to get suspicious of when reading Nagash was: if you are a Finecast model, things are probably going to go bad for you. I'm less worried about the direction of the fluff now that I've read the book. Are they killing people? Yes. Are they going way off the rails? Not really. At the end of this we'll have fluff justification for a bunch of armies being able to ally with each other. Undead can fight with Empire or Chaos, Elves can fight together, etc.

I don't think Archaon is safe actually. Same with Valten. What I can't decide on is if Karl Franz is going to make it, or give up the throne.

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Archaon seems like a pretty popular character (from what I've read on Warseer and similar boards so far). I can't stand Archaon. He's been around for decades and I just haven't jumped on the Everchosen bandwagon- he just seems a completely bland, one-note, generic, 'big bad'. Some poster here made the comparison that Archaon is the Thanos of the Warhammer world. No way man- He doesn't even come close to Thanos in my book. I vote for him to be killed off and replaced, and a more interesting Favoured of chaos to take his place. Or, even better, resurrect any fan-favourite chaos character from the early editions.

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Originally Posted by Warpsoul

Archaon seems like a pretty popular character (from what I've read on Warseer and similar boards so far). I can't stand Archaon. He's been around for decades and I just haven't jumped on the Everchosen bandwagon- he just seems a completely bland, one-note, generic, 'big bad'. Some poster here made the comparison that Archaon is the Thanos of the Warhammer world. No way man- He doesn't even come close to Thanos in my book. I vote for him to be killed off and replaced, and a more interesting Favoured of chaos to take his place. Or, even better, resurrect any fan-favourite chaos character from the early editions.

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Yeah, Archaon's pretty lame. I always felt he was an attempt to import the Abaddon character from 40K: the unaligned leader of Chaos's most powerful mortal followers. But whatever you might think of Abaddon, he's got the whole weight of the Heresy - the most compelling background GW's ever devised - behind him, whereas Archaon's always been a bit rubbish. Until now they've never really made any effort to develop him as a character beyond "he's, like, really awesome!" and his backstory has always seemed phoned-in.

The recent Archaon novel by Rob Sanders was good for the first half or so. Becomes silly travelogue of fight scenes after that, but was really awesome until that happened. Made me like Archaon a lot more. Seems almost, oddly enough, like a Malal-esque character

that is because we one about abbandon before we was the despoiler, and he also have more time in the fluff, until the novel we didnt really know to much about him and he was created pretty much to storm of chaos and after the event finish the way it did....

you can see why this happen

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Originally Posted by Kotrag

Erengrad is still around, the Ice Queen is apparently going to retaliate somehow. The Kislevites really haven't been thrashed the way they ought to have been.

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Only Erengrad's left, and the Queen being alive and planning a counterstrike is soon pretty much presented as a false rumour.

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Originally Posted by giant stegadon

One thing I started to get suspicious of when reading Nagash was: if you are a Finecast model, things are probably going to go bad for you.

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Well Volkmar shows that being a plastic character won't save you either.
Well, granted, Volkmar is the Sean Bean of Warhammer.

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Originally Posted by Urgat

Well Volkmar shows that being a plastic character won't save you either..

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Exactly. I've thought the idea that non-updated metal characters are most likely to get killed off, is pretty cynical.
It's the End Times. Anything goes. No one is safe.

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Originally Posted by Razios

that is because we one about abbandon before we was the despoiler, and he also have more time in the fluff, until the novel we didnt really know to much about him and he was created pretty much to storm of chaos and after the event finish the way it did....

you can see why this happen

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While soc was dissapointing, Archaon was created long before that, he was searching for the final treasure back in 5th ed.
There are ofc cooler characters, but he was kind of like darth vader before the newer trilogy.
Soc sadly made him the laughingstock of warhammer, not his moment to shine...

Being an old Marvel fan i´ve lost count over the many times i have heard the saying the Marvel universe will never be the same again after this.
A year after these events and everything is the same as it always where.

I think the same thing goes for GW. When we think of all the campaigns GW has run over the years Storm of Chaos, The Nemisis Crown etc etc all where put up as being big and epic and really important...except they weren´t.
Same with 40k all of the mayor campaigns in the end meant nothing, nothing changed everything remained the same Status Que remained.

What i personally really would like to see was a lasting change following each campeign.

Kinda like oh The Dwarfs won the nemesis crown, now they are able to research Alaric the Mad´s craftmanship and gain some advanteges in the next armybook.
Maybe something like new Runes or maybe a condition like Warp stone poisoning, something that will deminish magic resistance but give them an extra point in wound and thoughness.
Stuff like that that will acknowleadge that the event happened.

Same here, i wouldn´t mind it if Bugman or Thorgrim Grudgebearer bit the dust and as of the next armybook they would no longer be present or maybe Settra the Imperishable´s new allies changed him for the worse so in the new edition of Tomb Kings armybook both his apperence and rules has changed.
Things that acknowleadge that The End of Times had happened and it had consequences that the new world that followed was very different from the previous one.

Basically anything then just a return to status que.

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Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton

I'm hoping it is the end of the story, but not the end of the game.

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Thinks about situation, where GW says: "So, we gave you end times campaign. Everybody died and chaos won. We no longer support fantasy, no more miniatures for you. Deal with it."

I really don't know what gw will do to keep things alive. Possibly another fudge like the ending of SOC where Archeon loses to Nagash but doesn't die so nothing is decided.

What I really don't like about the End Times concept is that the very name of it means it's a war the 'good' factions can't win. Yes I know it's been stated for decades that the world is doomed, but it was never quite so right-now.

The fact Nagash is only the first of the four books, imho, means that the end result isn't going to revolve around him, he's just the first of the major characters.

Vlad or Manfred will die. There can only be one...

Orcs being Orcs, you can't rule out their influence. Perchance Wurrzag will locate the Once and Future Git?

It's hinted that there will be two, the Hand of Mork (Skarsnik) and the fist of Gork ( Grimgor).

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Originally Posted by Urgat

The fact Nagash is only the first of the four books, imho, means that the end result isn't going to revolve around him, he's just the first of the major characters.

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:eek: The end result will totally revolve around Nagash. How can it not? I mean, who else could fill the shoes of the biggest threat to Warhammer in ages? I know that more big players are coming in the new books, but surely not on a scale of Nagash. Unless someone resurrects Sigmar.

Well Valten is Sigmar, sort of. It would be quite ironic for him and Nagash to end up as allies.

Is there anyone who can supply me (either on this thread or via PM) a list of those special characters who have currently perished in the End Times?

Unfortunately between purchasing Space Hulk, the impending birthdays of both my wife and daughter AND Christmas now right around the corner I do not have a spare £50 to drop on the book. If anyone could help that would be grand.

yeah but the big moment for him was in SoC, and it wasn bad, but even there you dosent know anything about it, is a bad guy made to just be a bad guy, nagash is diferent, it have his moment, wait for ti and make his big show

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Originally Posted by 2_heads_talking

Is there anyone who can supply me (either on this thread or via PM) a list of those special characters who have currently perished in the End Times?

Unfortunately between purchasing Space Hulk, the impending birthdays of both my wife and daughter AND Christmas now right around the corner I do not have a spare £50 to drop on the book. If anyone could help that would be grand.

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Probably won't be a complete list, but the ones I remember are

- Thorek Ironbrow and King Kazador (and worse, God was that chapter painful)
- Settra (kinda)
- King Louen Leoncoeur
- Eltharion
- Kritislik (not a special character, but deserves a mention)
- Heinrich Kemmler

That's all I remember so far, but there may well be more.

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Originally Posted by 2_heads_talking

Is there anyone who can supply me (either on this thread or via PM) a list of those special characters who have currently perished in the End Times?

Unfortunately between purchasing Space Hulk, the impending birthdays of both my wife and daughter AND Christmas now right around the corner I do not have a spare £50 to drop on the book. If anyone could help that would be grand.

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I'll go ahead and send you a list that includes a few more. Despite starting this thread, I haven't read the whole End Times book, and I'm just finishing the Return of Nagash novel.

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Originally Posted by 2_heads_talking

Is there anyone who can supply me (either on this thread or via PM) a list of those special characters who have currently perished in the End Times?

Unfortunately between purchasing Space Hulk, the impending birthdays of both my wife and daughter AND Christmas now right around the corner I do not have a spare £50 to drop on the book. If anyone could help that would be grand.

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Appart from the already mentioned:

-Belannaer
-Morgiana le Fay
- The Changeling
-Aldebrand Ludenhoff
-hertwig
-Prince Apophas (seems like it at least)
-Finubar the Phoenix King (also seems like it)
-Crom the Conqueror
-most TK characters (I remember the Necrophant one, the High Priest, the champion of Settra)
- there was the leader of the council of 13, do not know if he was a sc or not
-Wallach of the Blood Dragons
- Zacharias the Everliving
-Volkmar the Grim (he and Eltharion had been tortured and killed so many times, it was only fitting for them to die together)
-ar Ulric Emil Valgheir

I may be missing some of them. Yeah, it was a bloodbath.

Changeling doesn't really count:P

If i remember right, weren't the Woodelves assisting the high elf rescue into sylvania, and just before the last ditch attempt by the highelves lead by Eltharion (killed by Arkhan), the wood elves fled through a gateway to a distant shore. Could this be the shores of Lustria, or Ulthuan perhaps? Could we therefore see the woodelves either appearing in the Malekith books or the skaven/ Lizardmen books, maybe the Woodelves fulfil their part of the lizardman prophesy.
All fluff, but random ideas

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Originally Posted by Erikjust

I think the same thing goes for GW. When we think of all the campaigns GW has run over the years Storm of Chaos, The Nemisis Crown etc etc all where put up as being big and epic and really important...except they weren´t.
Same with 40k all of the mayor campaigns in the end meant nothing, nothing changed everything remained the same Status Que remained.

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Difference between then and now: Now GW is one in full control. Before it was at least in theory supposed to follow campaign and pretty hard to make campaign where # of victories isn't most decisive factor and this leads by nature to stalemate(and cheating). GW is hard pressed to create anything significant out of de facto stalemate campaign results...

Now they are in full control they can lead it where THEY wish. Making it much more feasible to actually change the story through campaign.

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Originally Posted by Turgol

Appart from the already mentioned:

-Belannaer
-Morgiana le Fay
- The Changeling
-Aldebrand Ludenhoff
-hertwig
-Prince Apophas (seems like it at least)
-Finubar the Phoenix King (also seems like it)
-Crom the Conqueror
-most TK characters (I remember the Necrophant one, the High Priest, the champion of Settra)
- there was the leader of the council of 13, do not know if he was a sc or not
-Wallach of the Blood Dragons
- Zacharias the Everliving
-Volkmar the Grim (he and Eltharion had been tortured and killed so many times, it was only fitting for them to die together)
-ar Ulric Emil Valgheir

I may be missing some of them. Yeah, it was a bloodbath.

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eurm...

*Nagash did... something... to Apophas, but considering the scarabs that make up his body skittered away just fine, I doubt killing is what he did(mind control? curse?)
*Finubar is most likely alive. If he was "merely" dead, Teclis wouldn't have reacted as strongly as he did. Also, he probably would've told people about it so they could elect a new king. Possession or madness is more likely, with more runner-ups than I care to count.
*TK chars; Settras herald(whatever his name was) is dead, as is King Phar. The highest ranking Hierophants in Kemri are all dead, with one traitorous exception(don't recall names, will have to look 'em up when I get home). Note that the Grand Hierophant is not one of them however; the Grand Hierophant is in exile, and took no part in the story.

Still a nice job on the list, though :)

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Originally Posted by Gekiganger

Probably won't be a complete list, but the ones I remember are

- Thorek Ironbrow and King Kazador (and worse, God was that chapter painful)
- Settra (kinda)
- King Louen Leoncoeur
- Eltharion
- Kritislik (not a special character, but deserves a mention)
- Heinrich Kemmler

That's all I remember so far, but there may well be more.

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Who killed the first pair on the list?

Neferata and Krell.

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Originally Posted by theJ

eurm...
-snip-

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Finubar seems dead, The Rise of Nagash novel has Arkhan mentioning that his "allies" (whoever they are, since I chalked it up to chaos taking down the Phoenix King) have already killed him.
Considering how shaken Teclis is when he leaves the tower and how he's constantly giving the impression he's crossing lines and betraying his people to save them, I'd say he didn't find anyone alive in that tower.

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Originally Posted by Craze_b0i

Who killed the first pair on the list?

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A large undead host lead by Nefereta and Krell pincering them, plus a horde of goblins barreling into both sides.

Thorek attempting to open a door hidden and locked by runes so old and powerful even he doesn't recognize them, he manages to open the door, hoping to find something to save dwarf-kind as the world crumbles around them, but ends up being a huge badass and blowing his anvil up in an attempt to kill Nefereta.
Kazador dies to Krell after he turns up to try and save them.

The worst part being that behind the door is Valaya sleeping, who Nagash promptly consumes, so not only have the dwarves lost their most flavourful special character Kazador (though Rotgut died recently, so his story was wrapping up), one of their best runelords, but they've also lost an ancestor God while on the verge of finding her.
I was genuinely hoping dwarfs might actually be getting a break with the end times, with GW shaking things up I thought things might get so crazy the dwarfs stopped getting kicked in the teeth. Boy was I wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tarrell

If i remember right, weren't the Woodelves assisting the high elf rescue into sylvania, and just before the last ditch attempt by the highelves lead by Eltharion (killed by Arkhan), the wood elves fled through a gateway to a distant shore. Could this be the shores of Lustria, or Ulthuan perhaps? Could we therefore see the woodelves either appearing in the Malekith books or the skaven/ Lizardmen books, maybe the Woodelves fulfil their part of the lizardman prophesy.
All fluff, but random ideas

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The wood elf leader is visited by a vision of the goddess/everchild who tells them this fight is no longer theirs to influence. She then opens a portal for them to take to another (unspecified) important battle.

Wood elves in the lizardmen prophecy :wtf:?

I think Malekith is done for. He's an old model that they're unlikely to replace. New leadership could do the Dark Elves well.

I also think Gorthor will show up and be killed to make way for Malagor (and not have to include him in a future Beastmen Chariot kit). The Return of Nagash book is building him up well.

Gorthor? Gorthor's long gone :p

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Originally Posted by Urgat

Gorthor? Gorthor's long gone :p

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So was Vlad.
Still I don't think he will return to be rekilled.

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Originally Posted by Leogun_91

So was Vlad.

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I think that justification is going to get old very fast...

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Originally Posted by theJ

eurm...

*Nagash did... something... to Apophas, but considering the scarabs that make up his body skittered away just fine, I doubt killing is what he did(mind control? curse?)
*Finubar is most likely alive. If he was "merely" dead, Teclis wouldn't have reacted as strongly as he did. Also, he probably would've told people about it so they could elect a new king. Possession or madness is more likely, with more runner-ups than I care to count.
*TK chars; Settras herald(whatever his name was) is dead, as is King Phar. The highest ranking Hierophants in Kemri are all dead, with one traitorous exception(don't recall names, will have to look 'em up when I get home). Note that the Grand Hierophant is not one of them however; the Grand Hierophant is in exile, and took no part in the story.

Still a nice job on the list, though :)

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Settra's Herald was Nekaph and likely dead (which I don't mind, because while I liked him in theory, I hated him having the Flail of Skulls). King Phar went out like a G and can/should rest in peace as far as I'm concerned.

The most troubling of these events from a Nehekharan perspective are that all of the powerful, loyalist Priests within Khemri appear to have been destroyed, including Grand Hierophant Khatep who was put down by Settra for breaking his exile near the end of that battle to tell the King of Kings where the Destroyer of Eternities was hidden. As conniving as I think Khatep can be though, we can only hope that he had a contingency for the inevitability of Settra striking him down for defying his decree. It is quite likely that Settra very well may be the most powerful Liche Priest of Khemri (not Nehekhara proper but I digress) remaining in one piece who isn't currently licking Nagoon's boots.

I'm not sure what to make of the Apophas deal. He's available in the Undead Legion list despite seemingly being dispersed by Nagoon, so it's likely as Nagash has Usirian's power, he lifted the curse on Apophas just like he negated Settra's Brooch and nullified the Destroyer of Eternities in exchange for his fealty perhaps? I kinda wanted to like Apophas in all of this but if he's sided with the Usurper, I'm hoping horrible things happen to him.

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Originally Posted by Urgat

Gorthor? Gorthor's long gone :p

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Oh. Guess I need to read up on Beastmen.

Scrag The Slaughterer. That guy graced the clearance shelf of every indie game store. Now that the Ogre Kingdoms have collapsed, Greasus might not be necessary. That would be a good arc for him if he fails to reunite the Ogre Kingdoms and gets killed by... Gnoblars.

Quote:

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A large undead host lead by Nefereta and Krell pincering them, plus a horde of goblins barreling into both sides.

Thorek attempting to open a door hidden and locked by runes so old and powerful even he doesn't recognize them, he manages to open the door, hoping to find something to save dwarf-kind as the world crumbles around them, but ends up being a huge badass and blowing his anvil up in an attempt to kill Nefereta.
Kazador dies to Krell after he turns up to try and save them.

The worst part being that behind the door is Valaya sleeping, who Nagash promptly consumes, so not only have the dwarves lost their most flavourful special character Kazador (though Rotgut died recently, so his story was wrapping up), one of their best runelords, but they've also lost an ancestor God while on the verge of finding her.
I was genuinely hoping dwarfs might actually be getting a break with the end times, with GW shaking things up I thought things might get so crazy the dwarfs stopped getting kicked in the teeth. Boy was I wrong.

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Thanks for the info

That bit about Valaya behind the door sounds unbelievably lame. First the fact she is there asleep as opposed to being an entity of the aether. Second she isn't with Grungni. Third the fact a guy can just walk in and kill her.
Of curiosity why were undead attacking the dwarfs anyhow?

On a general note do we need to keep using spoiler tags for this thread? The book in question has been published so the fact that the thread will contain book info is pretty much a given.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Craze_b0i

Thanks for the info

That bit about Valaya behind the door sounds unbelievably lame. First the fact she is there asleep as opposed to being an entity of the aether. Second she isn't with Grungni. Third the fact a guy can just walk in and kill her.
Of curiosity why were undead attacking the dwarfs anyhow?

On a general note do we need to keep using spoiler tags for this thread? The book in question has been published so the fact that the thread will contain book info is pretty much a given.

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Spoiler!

Not sure how to do spoiler tags sorry, it is strange as the actual event of him consuming the power of Valaya(does not say she is destroyed) hardly gets a mention, the reason they attack the Dwarves is that bad luck on their part they just happen to be trying to get in the same door when the Undead turn up.

Which is all because Neferata found the door a long time in the past and uses it as an offering to Nagash to prove her loyalty.

Apologies if that is not 100% correct but it is close enough from my memory, really must give it a second read when i get chance.

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Originally Posted by emirparkreiner7

I think Malekith is done for. He's an old model that they're unlikely to replace. New leadership could do the Dark Elves well.

I also think Gorthor will show up and be killed to make way for Malagor (and not have to include him in a future Beastmen Chariot kit). The Return of Nagash book is building him up well.

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guy thorpe pretty much said that is malekith is gone the dark elves are gone too, after all is pretty much the only think that glue the whole druuchi sociaty

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Originally Posted by Razios

guy thorpe pretty much said that is malekith is gone the dark elves are gone too, after all is pretty much the only think that glue the whole druuchi sociaty

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Assuming everything else remained static, that's probably the case. But this is the End Times - a new narrative could set up a totally different status quo.

I would think if Malekith died we'd have the dissolution of Naggaroth, but the six city states would continue.

Teclis for Witch King 2016. :evilgrin:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Craze_b0i

Thanks for the info

That bit about Valaya behind the door sounds unbelievably lame. First the fact she is there asleep as opposed to being an entity of the aether. Second she isn't with Grungni. Third the fact a guy can just walk in and kill her.
Of curiosity why were undead attacking the dwarfs anyhow?

On a general note do we need to keep using spoiler tags for this thread? The book in question has been published so the fact that the thread will contain book info is pretty much a given.

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I'll drop the spoiler tags for now unless told otherwise since (for whatever reason, possibly browser related?), I can't even open them - need to quote posts to read them.

DeathGlam summs it up nicely.

Neferata found it forever ago but was too unskilled to open it, but it was so well hidden by the runes that she knew something powerful must be hidden behind it. She then uses it as her trump card when it comes to allying with Nagash, informing him of it in an attempt to prove herself more useful than his other servants - it's one of the places Nagash decides to drop in on the way to Nehekhera after his dodgy resurrection in an attempt to find something to gain back the power deficit he has - the outcome is a huge loss to the dwarves, who are there because Thorek is convinced he's found something that could herald a new golden age for the dwarves (though he doesn't know what at the time, just that it's something ridiculously important).

It doesn't really bother me that they're physically there as opposed to being some aether bound entity, the dwarven ancestor gods are always depicted as being much more active and physical, it's one of the things I love about them - dwarven Gods aren't some airy-fairy possibly a daemon and not the "real" Sigmar type thing that men have to put up with, they're active and physical.
Pretty depressing end result though, Thorek goes out like a badass, but for all dwarves are constantly mentioned as getting a nasty treatment, I can't think of anything that comes close to these losses - it really takes the cake and is probably the only thing out of all of these dead people End Times is giving us that has upset me.

Only silver lining is that if Valaya was still out there, maybe Grungni is too - and correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't one of the entries on dwarven ancestor Gods say that they'll eventually return in the dwarfs time of need? Or am I totally misremembering that, because now seems about right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton

I would think if Malekith died we'd have the dissolution of Naggaroth, but the six city states would continue.

Teclis for Witch King 2016. :evilgrin:

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If Teclis is becoming increasingly similar to Raistlin, then we should probably expect him to be punished for his hubris and meddling with forces more powerful than himself.
Granted, the 6th ed. HE armybook had the speculation that "his power is on a par with necromancer Nagash," but now Nagash seems to be more poweful by an order of magnitude.


My vote is that Teclis kicks the bucket at some point.

Don't know, I kind of expect the ruthless ones to be the ones who will survive. With Warhammer's imagery, it seems fitting.