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Thread: 5th ed. rumour compilation (Ruleset)

  1. #1
    Chapter Master de Selby's Avatar
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    5th ed. rumour compilation (Ruleset)

    Since there isn't currently an open thread about it, I thought I'd start a compilation thread for discussion of the rumours of a 5th ed. 40k coming next year (with new starter box). I don't have any info or confirmation myself, I just wanted a thread people can go to to talk about (or possibly debunk) these rumours.

    There have been a few rumblings about a rules revision in past months. There's also the fact that the studio don't appear to design codices for the 4th edition rules (at least where things like retinues are concerned). However, it's still possible that all this rumourage will never amount to anything. If you know more, spill the beans!

    Story so far:

    Shebnar said:
    ************************************************** *******
    OK, I'm going to post these other rumours appeared on GW Tilea: the source is trustworthy.


    - First of all, WH40K V Edition will see the light before summer 2008 (yes you read it right), just after the Codexaemons.
    There's not much in the new edition that is going to be radically changed, the things which will be modified for sure are:

    1) rules about vehicles
    2) damage chart for vehicles (MAYBE we'll have one only chart for glancing and penetrating hits, with modifiers according to the weapon which scored the hit - note that this is an uncertain rumour)
    3) rules about psychic powers
    4) small variations on HtH combat

    the source denied any further explaination.

    It has been speculated that the new Starter Box will include SM and Orks (both in plastic).


    Dosad said:
    ************************************************** *******

    Things I've heard about 5th edition:

    It will be released in 2008. I’ve been hinting at this in these forums for months now…I was told September/October, but maybe they are pushing it up for some reason. Maybe they are launching the new edition before they release the next supplement. Could have something to with the rules changes that they need the new system out before the next supplement.

    The new starter box will be Orks vs. Marines. Like BfSP it will have two small but complete armies. The new technology lets them put so much more stuff on a sprue and I've heard you get TONS of stuff in this box. I expect a vehicle or two (those rumors of a plastic killa kan have been floating around for some time) but I have no info to say what the contents will be beyond Orks vs. Marines (What do you think they are making those plastic grots for?). As an Ork player I am so very excited about this box…

    Rules wise I’ve heard that the vehicle damage chart will look like the Apocalypse one but for standard vehicles.

    I’ve heard nothing of a nerf for skimmers or any other major changes to the vehicle system. But that just means my source hasn’t told me anything or may not know himself.

    Two big changes I’ve heard about are changes to movement and (everyone wait for it…) changes to Rending! I posted these in a “rules idea” thread a few weeks back to see if anyone would notice…nobody did. I'm not going to go into detail now as I've been tourtured by the =I=nqusition before and do not wish to revist those dark places. But if you search for them, they are out there...posted as my own idea. (see how I do that? Like a f'n ninja!)

    I’ve heard that Combat Patrol and Kill Team are gone from the rule book. They will make a reappearance as their own supplement in 2009 with expanded rules for "space hulk" and "Necromunda" style games.
    They have been replaced with a much expanded mission system and campaign rules that are based off the Mighty Empires system for FB. I've heard that there are a few 40K specific tiles in the works. One being a hive-city tile.

    Dark Eldar are next after Deamons, beyond that I have no clue.

    That’s all I’ve got…well almost.

    Dosadi

    Sakura said:
    ************************************************** ********
    Just a couple of things to add:

    ~Marching rule:
    if your unit is like 12" away from an enemy or something you can run them like a fleet roll to get them in cover.

    ~Skimmers dont get glances if they move 12" but the vehicle damage rules change so I don't know how this means anything right now.

    ************************************************** ********

    I said: all this stuff sounds like a bigger deal than 3rd/4th. Particularly changes to movement. Is it possible for troops to get generally faster without breaking the game balance of the 4th ed codices (1st turn charges and whatnot). Maybe changes to reserves and deployment (as in Apocalypse) will counteract this? Or maybe some of these changes won't turn out (like the S7 ignores armour saves rule that never was, for apoc)?


    NEW!
    Summary up to page 5:
    Smokedog said (paraphrase)
    ************************************************** ********
    Ivé heard that splitting fire on vehicles will be an option again... looks like they have been reading the 2nd ed rule book a lot recently....

    BS 6,7 may now have some meaning gamewise

    Mars said (essentially summary)
    ************************************************** ********

    info that hasn't been mentioned yet (from what I've read):

    - rending ignores armour/glances automaticly on a 6 to-wound/penetrate, instead of to-hit

    - the forced march is basicly Fleet of Foot, but you can't use it within 12" of an enemy, and you can't move in the assault phase. units who actually have Fleet of Foot suffer none of these limits

    But Brimstone said
    ************************************************** ********
    Originally Posted by WarpWhisperer
    Has anyone noticed that the suggested forced march rule appears to give the green light to pre-measuring? i.e. just 'checking' to see if I can march - oh dear, I can't, but now I know I can assault....

    That's assuming the rumour as stated is correct which it isn't.

    I think that running would be more like fleet but with added restrictions to still give 'fleet' models an advantage.

    I don't see any changes for fleet to be honest more like restrictions on the run ability.


    Atrum Angelus said
    ************************************************** ********

    Before summer 2008? There will be no 5th Edition before July 2008. I promise you.


    NEW: summary up to page 10
    Brimstone on the box set:
    ************************************************** ********
    Well I don't know that much about it except it should feature Marines vs Orks and will contain larger models than just pure infantry on both sides.

    Also, Thylacine sent me this by PM:
    ************************************************** *********
    No new rulebook next year, Shebnar made a wrong translation from Italian, mistook the interviewers question for the interviewees answer!

    :confused:

    NEW: nothing new to p14 (lots of discussion about forced marching though)
    Redshirts say 5th ed. isn't happening next year.


    A smidgen of info from p35:
    Dosadi:
    ************************************************** **********
    Did you hear that [perils of the warp] now inflicts an automatic single wound not a S6 hit? No saves of any kind allowed. (except Ghosthelms )

    'cause that's what I've heard.
    That will make people stop complaining that their farseers are T3 now.





    FINAL EDIT: Now I'm back for the new year I had planned to edit this with any tidbits from the most recent 15 pages of the thread. However Brimstone has taklen the trouble to do his own rounduphere, so it seems a bit redundant. Since Brimstone is a better reliability filter than I am, I suggest referring to his roundup for further discussion.

    Changes look quite significant to me, and the movement, scoring units, and combat resolution rules seem likely to have significant implications for internal army balance. Box set sounds more cool every time I hear about it.
    Last edited by de Selby; 03-01-2008 at 16:12.
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  2. #2
    Chapter Master CELS's Avatar
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    Re: 5th ed. rumour compilation

    Meh. Doesn't make sense to me. They might make a new starter box, but I don't think we'll see a new rulebook for a while. I mean, making a new rulebook means that GW would get money from buying a new rulebook. Releasing a new 4th ed codex (like Space Wolves, Necrons or whatever) would lead to increased sales for existing models. (Though they might be inclined to release a few new metal Space Wolves, which are cheap and easy to make, and still provide them with a good income).

    Nope, I don't believe these 5th edition rumours at all. Not at all.
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  3. #3
    Chapter Master Latro_'s Avatar
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    Re: 5th ed. rumour compilation

    seemingly there were things done to the eldar,chaos and ork codex to make them more compliant when they update the main rules.

    maybe something can be drawn from said books? hmm.

    i like the marching idea, then again i do play orks hehe
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    Chapter Master Marius Xerxes's Avatar
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    Re: 5th ed. rumour compilation

    Id start to belive.. Brimstone has already put his stamp of "belive it" on them. Though not all the rumors are exactly correct, 5th edition is comming, soon.
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    Chapter Master Mojaco's Avatar
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    Re: 5th ed. rumour compilation

    Don't think fleet makes sense, as the very new orks has it as a special rule for one turn. So now everyone would have it when 12"+ from opposition. Perhaps with no option to charge? Seems odd at best.

    Hope this one doesn't get closed for people saying what they'd like to see. God forbid people voice their opinion and hopes in the rumour thread.
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    Chapter Master Gen_eV's Avatar
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    Re: 5th ed. rumour compilation

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojaco View Post
    So now everyone would have it when 12"+ from opposition. Perhaps with no option to charge?
    Well, if you're >12" from the enemy, a 6" fleet and 6" assault won't get you in anyway. The only things (barring the odd random individual maybe) that can assault >6" are Beasts, who already come as standard with fleet.

    As for me, I was a little sceptical until I noticed Brimstone mentioning there were plans, so we'll have to wait and see...
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    Chapter Master Mojaco's Avatar
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    Re: 5th ed. rumour compilation

    I interpretted it as when you start at >12", you move, fleet and assault, making assaults very easy. Your interpretation is different and more fair. But still... fleeting terminators?
    Bucket of joy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orkeosaurus View Post
    Orks are both Mean and Green, which gives them an inherent advantage over armies which are only Mean or Green, or are neither.
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  8. #8

    Re: 5th ed. rumour compilation

    As people have been pointing out more and more, warhammer and logic are two entirely different things. So yeah fleeting terminators sound very possible.
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    Re: 5th ed. rumour compilation

    Fleeting Terminators does bring more depth into the game, so i support it as long as "real" fleeting troops get a little more than what is rumoured so far.
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    Re: 5th ed. rumour compilation

    well rumors are popping up all over from different sources. stuff like the movement like fantasy where you could march"run" if no enemy is around . or move and double tap kinda thing and rumors of each race getting a movment rate so marines 4" eldar 5" nids 6" kinda rumors but hey gw releases new rules evry 4-5 years and yes it's sad but true they are due for a new rules edition? i'm not supporting nor hating it but as a hobbiest as long as they inprove the models i'll keep painting and playing
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    Re: 5th ed. rumour compilation

    and what is this brimstone thing? people are cheering for?
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    Chapter Master Merceus's Avatar
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    Re: 5th ed. rumour compilation

    Yeah, that fleeting thing is the only bit that doesn't really make sense...

    *goes to find out bout rending*

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    Re: 5th ed. rumour compilation

    Quote Originally Posted by Lithium Ghost View Post
    and what is this brimstone thing? people are cheering for?
    That's a good one. Brimstone is not a thing, he is a person. And a very important person in these parts not least because he belongs to the Warseer Inquisition.

    As for the topic I'd like to point out that "universal fleet" was already
    "speculated" by Dosadi to look like this

    Forced March: All infantry units may make a D6” move in the shooting phase instead of shooting as long as there are no enemy models within 12”. However they may not move in the assault phase unless they have the Fleet of Foot special rule. Models with Fleet may make this move even if enemy models are within 12” and may make a 6” assault move as normal.
    This rule makes a lot of sense by retaining the uniqueness of normal fleet while providing speed to infantry and walkers.
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    Chapter Master Stezerok's Avatar
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    Re: 5th ed. rumour compilation

    Quote Originally Posted by de Selby View Post
    There have been a few rumblings about a rules revision in past months. There's also the fact that the studio don't appear to design codices for the 4th edition rules (at least where things like retinues are concerned).
    I've definitely been hearing this too, granted I am a little dissapointed that I only get to play my shiny new 4th ed Eldar for about a year before 5th comes around lol. At least its not as bad as the Orks though.


    Quote Originally Posted by de Selby View Post
    - First of all, WH40K V Edition will see the light before summer 2008 (yes you read it right), just after the Codexaemons.
    This is kind of interesting, but I'm not sure about it... Won't that mean moving back Dark Eldar?

    Quote Originally Posted by de Selby View Post
    1) rules about vehicles
    2) damage chart for vehicles (MAYBE we'll have one only chart for glancing and penetrating hits, with modifiers according to the weapon which scored the hit - note that this is an uncertain rumour)
    3) rules about psychic powers
    4) small variations on HtH combat
    All of these are really going to affect me as an Eldar player. I personally wouldn't mind seeing a change to the vehicles rules, and damage tables, I must admit that a slight change to make skimmers a little less good, and normal vehicles a good bit better, I think would be enough to make the game more balanced. Psychic powers and HTH, I'll keep wondering about and maybe hope that my Farseer gets better with 5th, and my CC Aspects make a return.

    Quote Originally Posted by de Selby View Post
    The new starter box will be Orks vs. Marines. Like BfSP it will have two small but complete armies. The new technology lets them put so much more stuff on a sprue and I've heard you get TONS of stuff in this box. I expect a vehicle or two (those rumors of a plastic killa kan have been floating around for some time) but I have no info to say what the contents will be beyond Orks vs. Marines (What do you think they are making those plastic grots for?). As an Ork player I am so very excited about this box…
    This makes sense considering Orks are supposed to be released like next month (am I correct?)

    Quote Originally Posted by de Selby View Post
    Rules wise I’ve heard that the vehicle damage chart will look like the Apocalypse one but for standard vehicles.
    don't have epoc yet :cries:

    Quote Originally Posted by de Selby View Post
    Two big changes I’ve heard about are changes to movement and (everyone wait for it…) changes to Rending!
    This will be interesting if there actually is a change to movement... I think it will change the game pretty drastically unless its something really small and irrelevant. Rending is going to be awesome, I've heard that the changes are going to make it "6 to wound, ignores armor, and 6 to penetrate becomes auto-glance unless it would others wise penetrate" Which in my opinion would make many codices much more balanced. I was disappointed when they decided to just put the Rend-stick on the Harlies like they did with Genestealers, and Ass-cannons, but with this change it will make them more balanced.

    Quote Originally Posted by de Selby View Post
    Dark Eldar are next after Deamons, beyond that I have no clue.
    again, this is what I would hope for, I wouldn't want to see those Dark Eldar players get moved back AGAIN, after they were told a new dex would be out soon lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by de Selby View Post
    ~Marching rule:
    if your unit is like 12" away from an enemy or something you can run them like a fleet roll to get them in cover.
    This is interesting. There seems to be some different interpretations of this rule, I personally see it as a "Haul Ass" rule. By the way the OP has written it, it sounds to me like when a unit is within 12" of an opponents unit (ie. Rapid Fire range) the commander of the unit realizes their peril, and urges his troops to RLH, for the safest point near by, allowing them to fleet for that turn in the direction of cover (or possibly away from the enemy).

    Quote Originally Posted by de Selby View Post
    ~Skimmers dont get glances if they move 12" but the vehicle damage rules change so I don't know how this means anything right now.
    This makes for an interesting rules change, but I wonder whether doing damage tables based on vehicle type, then vehicle armor, then weapon str, then weapon ap, would create a system a bit too complex. Granted it probably would be the best system that makes the most sense. But nobody wants to have to deal with considering so many factors...

    Quote Originally Posted by de Selby View Post
    I said: all this stuff sounds like a bigger deal than 3rd/4th. Particularly changes to movement. Is it possible for troops to get generally faster without breaking the game balance of the 4th ed codices (1st turn charges and whatnot). Maybe changes to reserves and deployment (as in Apocalypse) will counteract this? Or maybe some of these changes won't turn out (like the S7 ignores armour saves rule that never was, for apoc)?
    yea who knows where this will go... All I know is I sure can't wait to see what GW throws at us next lol!
    Last edited by Stezerok; 18-11-2007 at 16:43.
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    Chapter Master stormtrooper154's Avatar
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    Re: 5th ed. rumour compilation

    I think this new movement idea is pretty good, although like some people said in the other thread - what would happen to transports.

    I hope the first post is updated when any new info is leaked rather than reading through endless pages
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    Banned lord_blackfang's Avatar
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    Re: 5th ed. rumour compilation

    Oh, great. Now DA and BA get to be stuck with overpriced Assault Cannons for the next 5 years... totally didn't see that coming.
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  17. #17
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    Re: 5th ed. rumour compilation

    Why is it not possible for GW to publish FAQs along with a new edition with points cost changes for affected stuff. If they are affraid, that this stuff gets even more unbalanced, they should just label it "experimental, not tournament aproved" and everything is fine.
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  18. #18

    Re: 5th ed. rumour compilation

    That's where BA got lucky, actually. After all the 5th edition stuff shakes out and SM are done, we'll get a regular codex where the points/ability fucntion of assault cannons et.al. is balanced.
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  19. #19
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    Re: 5th ed. rumour compilation

    On 5thed: The change from 2nd to 3rd drove me totally away from the game, for a long while. The 3rd-4th transition was a little bit better. With any luck, 5thed will have me buying whole new armies again. This does seem right to me as far as timing goes, though. They seem to go from 3-6 (absolute extremes, there) years between editions. Since 4ed was not particularly radical, and is basically a tweaked 3ed, this short time period seems quite right.

    Not to mention, 5ed comes on the heels of some major financial shakeups, and a radical change in the universal forms of codices and available rules. A new edition to jive with these changes is a proper move.


    On the Box:
    I recall someone mentioning it would be the same content as the old 2ed box. This would be sweet...but why set the boxed set's "storyline" during the Second War For Armageddon when the third is almost over? Could this, along with the Badab War thing, signal GW moving towards 'historical' campaigns within 40k rather than moving things past 999.M41?

    On Codices:
    No, definitely a SM Redux. Not only is SM one of the oldest codices out there, if a new boxed game is released featuring Marines and Orks, a Marine Codex to bring them streamlined into the new rules is a sure thing. They're the flagship of every edition.

    Also, look at the sheer number of new/pretty Marine models released since the 4ed Codex, the fluff on the 13th Crusade and the Badad War -- they're sure to want to fit some of their pretty new models and painting into a new miniatures porn...I mean color section.

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    Last edited by BrotherAdso; 18-11-2007 at 18:07.
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  20. #20
    Inquisitor Emeritus Brimstone's Avatar
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    Re: 5th ed. rumour compilation

    Lets keep questions on race specific codicies to their respective threads please.

    I've deleted several posts along these lines and future ones will be deleted without notice.

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