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Thread: 4 quick questions about the new VC rules.

  1. #1
    Marine Weazle's Avatar
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    Question 4 quick questions about the new VC rules.

    I just bought the new Vampire Counts book and I immediately took a liking to it. Maybe I'm about to start my very first Fantasy army

    However, some questions arose while I read through the book, and hopefully you guys can help me answer them.


    1 - A unit can only move once with Vanhel's, but can you Danse it once to get it into combat and once more to boost it for the fight? Or do I even have to cast it twice to get the ASF etc?

    2 - If you give your Vampire a Mastery power he can use Invocation of Nehek to increase a unit above it's starting size, but can he increase it above its maximum size (more than 10 Fell Bats for instance)?

    3 - Raised Zombies do not gain any command models, right?

    4 - Can Walach's Bloody Hauberk be combined with an Enchanted Shield? The rules specifically state that it can be combined with a shield, but (almost) any magic armour can be combined with a mundane shield, so why did they bother spelling it out if they didn't intend it to be an exception to the normal rules?

  2. #2
    Veteran Sergeant
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    Re: 4 quick questions about the new VC rules.

    1. You can cast vanhel´s a second time on a unit, after first having cast the spell to move them into contact with the enemy, to give the unit ASF and reroll missed attacks.
    You NEED to cast it a second time to give the unit the bonuses in close combat.
    2. Yes, he can increase them above maximun size. The maximun size only apply when you buy the unit.
    3. No. you raise normal zombies. No standard or musician.
    4. No, you can´t combine it with a enchanted shield. You´re only allowed to have one magic armor. And the Bloody Haubrek never state that you may take an additional MAGIC armor.
    As i see it the line about combining it with shield, barding etc isn´t needed.
    Corruptus in Extremis

  3. #3
    Commander Jagosaja's Avatar
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    Re: 4 quick questions about the new VC rules.

    1)You have to cast it twice

    2)I don't know

    3)They don't

    4)There have been many disputes here on that topic. Until official opinion on that comes from GW, I guess you cannot combine those two as no two magic armor items can be combined with each other. Although you have the point, there is something about that extra added wording, though it is unclear what they meant by it.

  4. #4
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    Re: 4 quick questions about the new VC rules.

    I don't see how it's a question. You can't take the Enchanted Shield if you have another set of magic armour, and nothing in the description of the Bloody Hauberk changes that. All it says is that if you have a shield, it can be combined with that. It's likely because of the way you buy equipment in the new list(eg. a shield and heavy armour at the same time(.

  5. #5
    Commander Jagosaja's Avatar
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    Re: 4 quick questions about the new VC rules.

    Well, why doesn't it say anything like that for Accursed Armor, Armor of Night, Cadaverous Cuirass or Nightshroud? They can also be taken with shield, but nothing like that is stated. Why is that sentence needed, what makes that armor special in comparison to the other, that it needs the addition?

  6. #6
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    Re: 4 quick questions about the new VC rules.

    Ah fair enough, I haven't actually looked much at any of the armours as I'm only using the Flayed Hauberk myself.
    Mostly I would think it's just an editing problem. Either that line was suppose to be there for all but got missed out, or it wasn't suppose to be there at all, but was left in.
    It doesn't actually mean anything and certainly doesn't grant you access to taking two pieces of magical armour or anything like that.

  7. #7
    Commander Jagosaja's Avatar
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    Re: 4 quick questions about the new VC rules.

    Yeah, I agree, it is most probably an editing problem. But it ain't fair from GW to give hopes of exceptions.

  8. #8

    Re: 4 quick questions about the new VC rules.

    1. you need to cast dance 2 times to get the charge move and the asf
    2. yes this is posible but read what he can raise above it's start size
    3. raised unit's are alway's WITHOUT comand groups.
    4. this is easy as hell just read all:

    walach's bloody hauberk 45 points
    the wearer has a 4+ armour save that may be combined with steeds, SHIELD, etc.
    walach's bloody hauberk also confers a 5+ ward save.

    Here stands you can combinate it with all other items to improve your save.
    I NEVER HAVE READ 1 RULE ABOUT YOU CANT USE A MAGIC ARMOUR AND A MAGIC SHIELD!!!!!!!!!
    the only point is you cant wear 2 magic armour's ofcourse.
    so you can have a magic armour a magic shield
    but you cant have 2 magic armour's!!!
    for example take high elfs you can take on 1 char:
    -armour of protection
    -enchanted shield
    -helm of fortune
    -temakador's gauntlets
    this are 4 magic armour selections but they are all on a different part of your char
    so you can wear all of those so you MAY take all of those there is no spefisical rule you cant. the only rule stands is you cant take 2 arcane items.

  9. #9
    Chapter Master Atrahasis's Avatar
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    Re: 4 quick questions about the new VC rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by Necronoxz View Post
    I NEVER HAVE READ 1 RULE ABOUT YOU CANT USE A MAGIC ARMOUR AND A MAGIC SHIELD!!!!!!!!!
    Then I suggest you read page 121 of the rulebook.

  10. #10

    Re: 4 quick questions about the new VC rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by Necronoxz View Post
    1. you need to cast dance 2 times to get the
    I NEVER HAVE READ 1 RULE ABOUT YOU CANT USE A MAGIC ARMOUR AND A MAGIC SHIELD!!!!!!!!!
    the only point is you cant wear 2 magic armour's ofcourse.
    I am glad you can utterly disprove yourself and then ignore the fact that you did.

  11. #11
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    Re: 4 quick questions about the new VC rules.

    The reason WBH states you can combine it with a shield and steed is simply because WBH is not a Suit of Magic armor. All the other Magic armors (except Flayed Hauberk, which too is not a Suit of Magic armor either) explicitly state: Heavy Armor or Light Armor as the first part of their description.

    Always keep in mind this simple fact: The name of the item is irrevalvent. WBH is not a suit of armor, but simple magical armor (could be a coif, bangle, greeve, or diaper for all we know) that confers a 4+ armor save that can be combined with "Steed, Shield, etc". It has been argued that "etc" includes mundane armor, which is not entirely correct or incorrect.

    But, contrary to what Necronoxz thinks he knows: Enchanted Shields can not be combined with magic armor of any type and his HE character is illegal. You can only ever have one piece of magic armor. This sucks because Enchanted Shield + Cadaverous Cuirass would be awsome

  12. #12
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    Re: 4 quick questions about the new VC rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by Necronoxz View Post

    Here stands you can combinate it with all other items to improve your save.
    I NEVER HAVE READ 1 RULE ABOUT YOU CANT USE A MAGIC ARMOUR AND A MAGIC SHIELD!!!!!!!!!
    the only point is you cant wear 2 magic armour's ofcourse.
    so you can have a magic armour a magic shield
    but you cant have 2 magic armour's!!!
    for example take high elfs you can take on 1 char:
    -armour of protection
    -enchanted shield
    -helm of fortune
    -temakador's gauntlets
    this are 4 magic armour selections but they are all on a different part of your char
    so you can wear all of those so you MAY take all of those there is no spefisical rule you cant. the only rule stands is you cant take 2 arcane items.
    Unless the HE book specifies otherwise you cannot have more than one item of a certain type.

    Rulebook: Magic Items: page 120: paragraph 3:" A character can only have one magic item of each type (weapon, armour etc) unless otherwise indicated"
    "Amateur gynaecolgist........ and I'm more than happy to have a look" :confused:

  13. #13
    Commander Jagosaja's Avatar
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    Re: 4 quick questions about the new VC rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nedar View Post
    The reason WBH states you can combine it with a shield and steed is simply because WBH is not a Suit of Magic armor. All the other Magic armors (except Flayed Hauberk, which too is not a Suit of Magic armor either) explicitly state: Heavy Armor or Light Armor as the first part of their description.

    Always keep in mind this simple fact: The name of the item is irrevalvent. WBH is not a suit of armor, but simple magical armor (could be a coif, bangle, greeve, or diaper for all we know) that confers a 4+ armor save that can be combined with "Steed, Shield, etc". It has been argued that "etc" includes mundane armor, which is not entirely correct or incorrect.
    WBH is a Magic Armor item. If it is not a magical Heavy or Light Armor, and it is said that it can be combined, than I see no reason it cannot be combined with ordinary Heavy or Light Armor. I know this was a part of a big discussion, but I can see we are getting very close to the truth, what WBH truly is and what can it be combined with.

    If it is a suit of Magic Armor as others in the section, why is that sentence there, remains unknown, and I believe GW has to explain.

  14. #14
    Chapter Master The Clairvoyant's Avatar
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    Re: 4 quick questions about the new VC rules.

    i believe the reason it says WBH combines with other equipment is simply because it also says the Flayed Hauberk doesn't. It creates a distinction between the two hauberks.

    I don't see what the fuss is about, personally!

  15. #15
    Chapter Master Atrahasis's Avatar
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    Re: 4 quick questions about the new VC rules.

    Jagosaja : Magical armours cannot be combined with mundane armour unless they are specifically shields or helms.

  16. #16
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    Re: 4 quick questions about the new VC rules.

    So the HE mask which is not specifically a Helm cannot be combined with armour?

    This is news to me.

  17. #17
    Chapter Master Atrahasis's Avatar
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    Re: 4 quick questions about the new VC rules.

    The HE Mask is specifically a mask and therefore a special case.

    Since the Hauberk doesn't specify what it is, the default is that it cannot be combined with mundane suits of armour.

  18. #18
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    Re: 4 quick questions about the new VC rules.

    Don't get your point really Jag. It only says it can be combined with Shield and Steed and "etc" due to the fact is is NOT labeled as a certain type of armor at all. WBH is not a suit of armor...period. It's just magical armor. By the letter of the rules magical armor can never be combined with other magic armor unless one of the items states otherwise.

    You can gather that WBH is not a shield by the description, but that is it. It's an armor that is not a suit, or a shield and that is all we know. Since it's not a shield it can be combined with a mundane one, and a steed as well (wich essentially is extraneous anyway)...it's just letting you know so you don't get confused. Which is silly when there are so many areas of the book they did not spare us this problem.

    Clairvoyant, keep in mind the name of an item is meaningless to how it functions But your observation makes sense since both items are likely the same kind of armor (Not a suit) but one can be improved and the other can not.

    Interestingly, there is nothing saying you can't take a shield or steed with Flayed Hauberk, but it doesn't matter since your save is capped at 2+ .

  19. #19

    Re: 4 quick questions about the new VC rules.

    Not entirely pointless, since magic items can potentially be negated.

  20. #20
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    Re: 4 quick questions about the new VC rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    The HE Mask is specifically a mask and therefore a special case.

    Since the Hauberk doesn't specify what it is, the default is that it cannot be combined with mundane suits of armour.
    Probably a Hauberk (yeah, stating the obvious but...), but I'd guess GW decided for simplicity to assume people don't know what a Hauberk is, so wrote the rules accordingly.

    For those interested, a Hauberk is a (scale/chain/ring) mail shirt, which can come down to the knee (as depicted on the Bayeaux Tapestry for example).
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