As the thread was getting very off topic I will post what I have to say here.

This will probably degenerate into a flamewar and get deleted anyway, but I've already typed it and it would be a waste to not post it.

Quote Originally Posted by Occulto View Post
Damn straight. People are looking at Marines and saying: "look how many releases they get!" without looking at the quality of the releases.

Xenos releases are much bigger than the SM ones. SM ones tend to be "here's your codex, here's your sprue of bits and here's something that's not specific to you but we figured we'd give it to everyone." They're always building onto the existing range.

Ask yourself. If Orks were redone on the same scale as DA with the same number of kits/upgrades - how would the Ork community have reacted? They'd feel shafted at such a half arsed job.

Yet, I'm expected to believe that somehow the DA release is somehow equal?

It's not an equal comparison. When Codex: Bad Moons comes out with a dribble of bits to ADD to the already existing codex ork models, THEN we can compare to Dark Angels.

Space marine chapters, no matter how venerated are nothing more than glorified sub lists bloated out to full codex size. They are a chapter of space marines, that's it. I've bought every codex since 2nd ed and it really hasn't changed much. Most of the 'uniqueness' is in the Special Characters and any special formations/rules they provide.

Before the 2nd ed Angels of Death the Ravenwing was just the name given to the Dark Angel division of bikers. They didn't have any special rules. Before Angels of Death, Blood Angels (well, the WD article came first) had never heard of death company.

Even GW UK lists all the marine chapters in the 40k section of the website under the title "Space Marines". When someone peruses the GW website they see that Dark Angels are just a type of space marine, not that Dark Angels are a type of ARMY. Because they aren't, they're just a slightly different way of playing the same army.

Compare the releases for Codex: Orks to the releases for Codex: Space Marines when it last came out. The orks don't even have a glorified sublist-cum-codex to compare to the Dark Angels.

And don't tell me that the Dark Angel models are completely unusuable by other marine players, cause I have at least one conversion to prove you wrong and know many with marine armies with multiple.

I definitely can't sub a dark angels veteran squad in for some nobs, but I can for a 'vanilla' marine chapter. Just as a hypothetical Bad Moon Klan nob mob could be subbed in for a 'vanilla' ork army.

Apart from which, it's been an extremely long time since the last ork codex was released with only CoD to add 1 big mek and 1 kommando unit in all the time.

Each new marine codex gives them a chance to release marine-generic units they haven't done yet. Take the drop pod for example. EVERYONE has been saying that it makes sense to release it with the next marine chapter codex.

No one said it should be held off for the next 5 years until Codex: Space Marines is actually released. No, because marine chapters are sublists of Codex Marines and use most of the same units. Thus the 'parent' army (although you don't need the parent list anymore) still gets models added to it for years simply because there are marine chapter codicies being released in the meantime. cf Librarians with the Dark Angels and Chaplains I believe with Black Templars.

The orks had no sublist codicies being released in the interim so ALL (or most) the miniatures they needed were released when it was updated.

Give me 4 Klan codicies over 7 years with small releases including parent codex compatible models and there will be parity.


None of the above is aimed at denigrating marines (considering the number I have and the Battle Company I just bought) because I like them.

I just really don't like the preferential treatment. The closest any army got to the space marine chapter sublist was Codex: Craftworlds and it got canned later anyway. The argument 'well you can just use Codex: Eldar to create Saim Hann so you don't need a codex' applies equally to marines. Ravenwing ride bikes for the Dark Angels. Thus any unit of bikes in the Dark Angel army you have are Ravenwing. They don't NEED special rules.

Saim Hann's Wild Riders had just as much background about their awesome riding skillz as the Ravenwing, so if the Ravenwing get soopadoopa special rules and new models why don't the wild riders?

Because GW chose to do it that way. Not because there is some cosmic fundamental reason that Ravenwing are "more differenter" than normal bikers and Saim Hann wild riders aren't. They are both distinct, unique thematic units from two different armies.

One just happened to be born a Space Marine and the other didn't.

For every space marine chapter codex there should be an Ork Klan, eldar Craftworld, Tau Sept, Guard Regiment, or Tyranid Hive Fleet codex released.

Hellebore