SPP and Skaven Help

[Lavieth]

Hey everyone,

So I have played my 3rd league game (first time in a league) and my Skaven team (The Warpstone Stars) and a spectacular 0 - 3! I have amassed a massive 18 SPP across my entire team 15 of which have come from my team's MVP at the end of the game (who oddly enough have some how managed to land on the same linerat each time! ) In my last game I saw the death of my latest Gutter Runner purchase. As my team stands it has:

1 Thrower
3 Gutter Runners
1 Storm Vermin
7 Linerats

6 Fanfactor
3 Rerolls

Apothecary

Treasury: 60K

I`m in serious need of help.

I have been trying to get my thrower SPP by throwing short passes but its not goign very well. I`m not able to hold teh ball then, and getting it back is a bugger. I`ve tried the running game, but my opponents know the speed of skaven and keep enough tougher guys back to get in their faces.

Can I get 2 things from you guys please. the first is what is the best way to accmulate SPP with Skaven. And the best way to use skaven

Many many thanks!

[-fen-]

First of all, the best way to get SPP on your Skaven is to load them up on the Gutter Runners at first (Remember quick passes from one gutter runner to another are 2+ then 2+) and then later use them to support the rest of the team.

You really need to get a 4th Gutter Runner (shame you lost one) and the 2nd Storm Vermin. But time will bring them along, I'd probably get the vermin ahead of the runner as you can function with three runners and it seems you'd benefit more from a little more backbone in the squad.

Don't worry about linemen, they'll get SPPs here and there randomly and then die. But they're not important. Your Stormvermin should eventually pick up their SPPs through blocks, but it's not bad to score with one. Remember your guys are all decent TD scorers.

The problem is there's no real efficient way to gain SPPs without scoring TDs, so practice is a big part. You should try talking to the other members of your league and cribbing notes on how to play better. When a turn goes wrong ask your opponent what he would have done different. There's nothing quite like giving someone a chance to show off their knowledge if you want to learn something (plus sometimes they just give things away). Improving both your defense and offense is important, games of BB are won on the defense, if you can turnover a drive you can change the momentum of the match to your favour. Also, don't give your opponent blocks on your players (especially the runners) if you can avoid it.

Ultimately try to use your gutter runners for most of the ball handling duties, don't use the thrower so much. Keep him for when you're against strip ball players. Don't be afraid to leave a gutter runner (or two) 9 or 10 squares away from the TD line so you can just hand off to them and sneak in a TD whenever the chance arises. When you go to score a TD do it in a single turn, you're fast enough that you don't need to hide deep in their half, you can recieve it 3-4 squares into their half and score from there.

COMPS and TDs on your Gutter Runners are the best way to skill up. You're left hoping if you want CAS or INTs at this stage. Skaven just aren't good at causing casualties. If you get the chance to score with a Storm Vermin because he's been left unmarked (and you have a reroll for the hand off) go for it.

If you're trying to score a TD in a turn it's always better to go for the Hand Off if you can get it, only 'risk' the Pass if you need the extra distance, you're already ahead, or you're going from gutter runner to gutter runner with reroll back up.

[Lavieth]

Thanks for teh advice I never considered handing off to the storm vermin yet, although I will try. And I think your suggestion of a bunch of quick passes between gutter runners sounds like a good idea for that. After next game I should ahve enough gp's in my treasury to get a second vermin or possibly (given I win) a rat ogre. Would you reccomend I get one of those to hold off tougher opponents?

Thanks again. You've been very helpful. I will have to post the break down of this coming weeks match. I think i'm either against elves or humans

[Cirrus the Blue]

Thanks for teh advice I never considered handing off to the storm vermin yet, although I will try. And I think your suggestion of a bunch of quick passes between gutter runners sounds like a good idea for that. After next game I should ahve enough gp's in my treasury to get a second vermin or possibly (given I win) a rat ogre. Would you reccomend I get one of those to hold off tougher opponents?

Thanks again. You've been very helpful. I will have to post the break down of this coming weeks match. I think i'm either against elves or humans

I'd seriously reccomend saving up for the Ogre soon as you replace your Gutter Runners up to maximum allowance. You're gonna need the strength to back up your speed and that's a great way of going about it. It's sure as heck an intimidating tactic all the same.

- Cirrus

[the anti santa]

Fen's advice is very good, but i'd add that you should only do quick passes if it is safe to do so. So if you receive the ball deep and are facing a slow team, like dwarfs then it is fine to do a 1 SPP pass after the safer moves. I probably wouldn't use a re-roll early on as you only have 3 and need to save them for vital things.

You should get a stormvermin and gutter next, franky Rat Ogres were overpriced in LRB4 and are stupidly expensive in LRB5. With only AV8 and wild animal they are a bit of a liability and i'd suggest you only get one if you are flush with cash as there are much better things to spend money on.

[Marlow]

The Rat Ogre is good for holding the line, but expensive for what you get. So I agree wait until you have all the important players before getting one.

Once they do start skilling up you need to think about what Skills to take on your Runners to make them better at scoring. Leap can be of great use.

[spevna]

Yep, replace that GR asap as they are the most important players on the team. I was lucky enough to roll an extra agility for one of mine and he is all kinds of wonderful.

[Leilond]

Use the thrower only when your opponent has a strip ball skilled player... once one of your gutters get "sure hand" skill, you can finally put the thrower in the rest room and put him in the pitch only when your runner is injuried and have to lose a game

Take the second Vermin and the Rattogre... not because the Rattogre worth its value... because it's FUN to have one in the field...
I ALWASY deploy my rattogre and it's a wonderfull psycological weapon. Usually I simply move it (try to move him to be honest )... putting my opponent in the situation to chose if he really want to pass near a mighty blow player, usually forcing him to choose a different route... I block with every now and then... I blitz only when I'm sure I'll have 3 dice to roll...
Once you have Juggernaut and Piling on for the rattogre, (and possibly Claws and Tentacles) it will become great

For your runners
Normal: Block, sprint, sure hand, sure feet, side step are good skills for a TD maker
Normal: Block, Tackle, Diving Takle, Shadowing, Wrestle and Side step for a defensive one (I use one like this and it's GREAT)
Doubles: Two heads for the TD maker, Prensile tail and Stand firm (in place of Side step) for the defensive one

Remembre... give him BLOCK, absolutely! It totally change the results of the blocks! Knocking down a runner with dodge using three dice is 70%... knocking down a runner with both block and dodge is 42%!! With both the skill you are able to resiste to a troll blitz more than half the times!

Shadowing + Diving tackle is a wonderfull weapon!
When someone try to pass near you dodging, you can follow him with shadowing (with MA 9 you are likely to win most of the time) until the end zone, forcing your opponent to roll a dodge after another... and with the diving tackle you can force a -2 to one of those dodge AFTER YOU SEE THE DICE RESULT... and the -2 will apply to the reroll (if there will be one)
I call it the "glue gutter"

[Stuart-GreatEscapeGames]

Huh? If you use Diving Tackle you go prone.

[Darkson]

Huh? If you use Diving Tackle you go prone.

Correct - but if your opponent fails his dodge, then it's a turnover.

[Warlord Gnashgrod]

Well, I'm a vet Skaven player, and I'll give some advice.

First of all, the question is, what edition of the living rule book are you using? If's it's the most recent, I have to ask why you even spent money on Fan Factor when you built your team? Fan Factor is no longer important in LR5, not like it was before. When you win games, it goes up very easily. It only can go up when win, and only down when lose.

2nd. everyone says gutter runners, gutter runners gutter runners. I don't think they are so important that you need 4 of them. Yes I said it. 2 max is enough. I also don't know why everyone thinks Skaven are so bad at causing casualties. They are no worse than most of the other teams. You're forgetting that they have the average strength of 3. The teams that are BAD at doing casualties(or at least the players) are goblins, halflings and snotlings. Anyway, the important thing to remember is there are 2 parts of the game; scoring TDs, and hurting the other team. Skaven can do this, but not with 4 gutter runners. Gutter runners are good for the offensive part of the game(when kickoff is to you) but are worthless when you're on defensive, cause they have only Strength 2.

An important thing to remember, whenever you make blocks, always try to have the higher strength through assists. Having higher strength in blocks is even more important than the block skill on it's own. Rolling 2 or 3 dice and being able to chose is very helpful. Having block makes it even better though, of course.

The rat ogre is good both for offense and defense. Yes, he's expensive(don't know why they make him so expensive this edition, I mean 160K?? other than the deathroller, hes the most expensive, and unlike the rat ogre, the cost makes sense for the deathroller) but he is still good. Yes he's unpredictable and a gamble, but so is every other big guy, with the one exception of the damn deathroller lol. But wild animal is no where near as bad as it used to be, and he's a threat the other player has to deal with. I started out with one with my team at the very start, and he's worked very well. Hasn't gotten many spp yet, but he distracts the opponent, which helps too. And still causes some damage as well.

Always go for the quick pass when passing. You'll get a +1 to pass, which helps. Also, an important thing to remember is to protect the ball carrier at all times. try to keep at least 2 others next to him, on opposite sides. Though more is always better.

Definitely get the 2nd Stormvermin asap. Then fill up on linerats. the only time your gutter runners should be on the field is when the kickoff is to you, or when you don't have enough players otherwise to put out on the field.

Just to let you all know, the only games I've lost in my personal league are to a dwarf team(dwarfs are the toughest players in Blood Bowl, IMO). And in my last game with him, I beat him 3-1. And I'm the only one who has beaten him, out of like 15 games that he's played. The teams in the league are a good collection, including 2 Orc teams, a high elf team, a gobbo team, a human team, etc. We're all good players too. Our games are very bloody and competitive as well. We all do our best to hurt the other team lol.