Why Haven't Dark Elves Won?

[Nicha11]

Dark Elve's are born warriors, they spend all their time raiding other's and fighting eachother.
They Have a better leader (Malekith) and use incredibely powerfull chaos magic which the High Elves are to scared to use.

They seem to attack Ulthuan pretty regualrily and always do alot of damage.
(They would have won last time but for Teclis)

Most of the High Elf forces are Militia, and are completely out classed by the Dark Elves.

So how come Dark Elves haven't just destroyed them?

[Condottiere]

To be more precise, why haven't they lost? Any really determined High Elven pursuit and invasion would destroy them.

In the end, it's a matter of balance, the Dark Elves neutralize the Chaos threat from the north in the New World, and the High Elves have to ensure that the Vortex continues to function. In the meantime, they deeply despise one another and occasionally try extreme prejudicial attempts at resolving their differences.

[Lord Lucifer]

Malekith is good, but he's not amazing. And he can't be everywhere, and there's a fair amount of rivalry between everyone below him. And even a huge rift in society between the cult of Khaine, the cult of Pleasure, and the Sorceresses. The High Elves don't have these rifts.

The Dark Elves are no more 'born warriors' than the High Elves are, and both place great emphasis on every man, by necessity, being a competent soldier. If the Druchii practice a little more swordplay, that'd be easily evened out by the superior displine of the Asur


The Druchii use Dark Magic, which is the accumulated eight winds together in their raw form, the Asur use High Magic, a strictly formalized application of all eight winds. Both are incredibly powerful, Dark Magic is simply easier and riskier than High Magic (which is also a potent anti-Dark Magic medium to work with)


They attack Ulthuan... and it usually costs them. Things generally go poorly for an invading army unless they're lucky and/or have a VERY well executed plan (or superior force)


The reason the Dark Elves haven't 'won' yet is because, brother, it ain't easy

[Lord Lucifer]

To be more precise, why haven't they lost? Any really determined High Elven pursuit and invasion would destroy them.

In the end, it's a matter of balance, the Dark Elves neutralize the Chaos threat from the north in the New World, and the High Elves have to ensure that the Vortex continues to function. In the meantime, they deeply despise one another and occasionally try extreme prejudicial attempts at resolving their differences.

I think the best answer in both cases would probably be "Because they would destroy themselves in the process"
Without a lot of time and gradual change, I don't see a comprehensive and conclusive war ending well for either side.

[Nicha11]

I don't see a comprehensive and conclusive war ending well for either side.

The only way I see there war ending in the short term is
Malekith, Finubar or Tyrion drawing the Godslayer from
the altar of Khaine.

Problem is Malekith is too scared, Finubar isn't a warrior
And Tyrion is just too goody good good.

So I guess they will just keep fighting till they both become so weak
That they get taken out by Chaos.

But I still reckon Dark Elves will probably win.

[Jerrus]

Have the Dark Elves ever won anything?

They don't really have any "real" accomplishments, do they?

Maybe that's why they are so emo....

[Jedi152]

I think someone been reading too much into army book propaganda ...

[Lord Lucifer]

army book propaganda ...

You just repeated yourself

[Nicha11]

I think someone been reading too much into army book propaganda ...

Lol you are probably right.

[Genrazn]

Dark Elves is a lost cause. Being recruited by Chaos on a daily basis yo.

Seriously when your two top tier guys are working with chaos you know your screwed :P

Plus most liekly whats gonna happen. Wood Elves winning just cause they arent involved.

[isidril93]

cos the high elve have all their warriors in ulthuan while dark elves leave quite a few of thier warriors behind. also the high elf lands are more united than the dark elf lands.

[The Anarchist]

well GW dosn't want anyone to wina nything, it would damage the status quo, so its never gona happen.

also basic military doctrine is that invading and holding enemy territory is far harder than defending territory you already hold. the support of the general populace and knowledge of the territory is a serious advantge.
As a side factor the DE might have more warriors, but they wouldn't have as many wariors on Ulthuan invasion force as the entire home armies of High Elf nation. whilst Melekith might be a good warrior he can't be everywhere at once (as stated above) and his udnerlings would not have the organisation or cohesion of a defending HE force on home territory.

one thing thats puzzling to me is even when the DE loose in Ulthuan they retreat completly to Naggaroth. even if they loose their battles desicivly why do they never make a real effort to keep a solid foot hold Ulthuan. a basic tennant of an invasion is having a secure bridgehead into enemy territory, yet the DE loose in Ulthuan and seem to retreat completly, ratehr than keep some of what they ahve taken for the next time they wana kill some elves in white dresses?

just my two cents.

[Condottiere]

They have tried several times to hold on to Anlec.

[Freak Ona Leash]

And according to the new army book, the Shadowlands are more or less a contested zone between the two powers of the High Elves and the Dark Elves. The Shades fight the Shadow Warriors, The Shadow Warriors fight the Shades and occasionally some Dark Elves get uppity and launch a raid to recapture Anlec.

[ryng_sting]

Using your citizenry as your soldiery has cons as well as pros, and it is rather disturbing to see how few realise this: If your birth rate and induction rate are near-identical, what does your death rate entail...?

[The Anarchist]

They have tried several times to hold on to Anlec.

I understand they have tried to hold onto Anlec, my point is they never seem to put real effort into it. if you can push an invading army half way across Ulthuan before being seriously slowed, that means alot of troops. so why is it the DE are alwasy pushed back and out of Anlec. they HAVE plenty of competant generals like the HE, arguably more able troops, and are on the defensive in holding Anlec. so the DE and HE numbers should be relativly even, as whilst the HE are on homeground they dont ahve anywhere near the number of warriors at the constant ready, or the number of elves in the standing armies. surly this should leave the DE if not with an advantage, at least on even footing, so why can't they hold onto one small area of Ulthuan!?

Melekith is more than 5000 years old, and was at one time considered one of the foremost Generals of the united Elven race, and thats when he was still a young prince! so to add to that hes had a further 4500 years experience, and hates the HE with a passion, wanting to see them all dead. you would think all this combined he would understand the basic principle of a safe beach head in enemy territory. so why has he not made far far more serious efforts in keeping Anlec among many other areas of Ulthuan for future invasions?

ok that was bit of a rant, sorry everyone.

[Chris2358]

I think High Elf warriors are better than Dark Elf warriors. The FB rules certainly suggest (ASF suggests not only great discipline but also a tremendous amount of teamwork) it but I know fluff and rules are a world apart. Also the High Elf soldiery are not militia. A rotary system of being citizens and then soldiers is very similar to how the Roman legions worked, and no one can really call them militia.

I do think there are more Dark Elves however, no idea what gives me that presumption but it just seems to make sense. And quantity does have a quality of its own.

Malekith is powerful but he is a wussy since he got hit with the business end of the White Sword and only in half control of his own nation.

I don’t think that the Dark Elves should have won by now, maybe its because the High Elf navy is so good that it is difficult to get onto Ulthuan and stay there?

[The Inspector]

Dark Elve's ...spend all their time ...fighting eachother.

There. You answered your question in your first line.

The only way I see there war ending in the short term is
Malekith, Finubar or Tyrion drawing the Godslayer from
the altar of Khaine.

Nah, Teclis will betray his brother Tyrion and kill Malekith. Perhaps not in that order, but the numerous fluff pieces have built up the eventual story arc that Teclis will 'pull a Raistlin' and betray his morals for ultimate power.

Teclis heavily resents his brother for his physical strength and popularity, and Malekith's prophecy leaves the most likely candidate to be a High Elf male mage of great power to be his eventual murderer.

I realise I've just thrown a massive cat amongst the pigeons with the above statement, and will enjoy the ripple effect it has

[Nicha11]

There. You answered your question in your first line.

They do have infighting but they are complete loyalty to Malekith.
Their infighting is just to kill off the weak.
They are probably more loyal to (or scared of) Malekith, Then the
High Elves Nobles are loyal to eachother to eacthother.

And In the Shadow Lands the High Elves aren't really on
Home ground, nobody really lives there (except Shadow Warriors)
And HE they don't have any fortress' there either.

It's mentioned alot the the HE are a "dying race"
but i've never heard that said about the DE.
Why's that?

[Leogun_91]

Their infighting is just to kill off the weak.

Do you realise how many those are when you have an universal toughness of 3.