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Thread: Hatred Monster question

  1. #1
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    Hatred Monster question

    A lord on a dragon has involved in CC for 2 turns. Lord dies on turn 3 and a dragon fails his monster reation test and has 'frienzy and hatred".

    At this turn 3, can a dragon re-roll fail to hits because of hatred?

    thank you.

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    Re: Hatred Monster question

    i'm going to say no since it is not the first turn of combat, since the rules for hatred say first round of combat, not first round of combat that you have hatred for. i thought i remembered seeing something similar to this in a faq but i can't find it now.

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    Re: Hatred Monster question

    No, it's not the first round of combat.

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    Chaplain Classical Mushroom's Avatar
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    Re: Hatred Monster question

    Hatred only works in the first round of any combat. So the Dragon will not get to re-roll hits if it's turn 3 of the combat I am afraid

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    Chapter Master Spirit's Avatar
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    Re: Hatred Monster question

    Surely in this case it would count as the first round of combat for hatred.

    If your going to say no to this, would you say the same to a skaven screaming bell that rolls hatred for the army? Seems a bit harsh to me.

    Im aware the rule wording is "first turn of combat", but i've always assumed you have to have hatred to start the turn count.
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    Chaplain Classical Mushroom's Avatar
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    Re: Hatred Monster question

    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit View Post
    Surely in this case it would count as the first round of combat for hatred.

    If your going to say no to this, would you say the same to a skaven screaming bell that rolls hatred for the army? Seems a bit harsh to me.

    Im aware the rule wording is "first turn of combat", but i've always assumed you have to have hatred to start the turn count.
    Well if the Dragon was already affected by Hatred at the beginning of the Combat as a result of the Lord having it then i wouldn't allow it. However if the Lord didn't have hatred and then the Mount gained it after the Lord had been slain then yeah i would as its the first turn the dragon has been affected by Hatred.

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    Chapter Master Spirit's Avatar
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    Re: Hatred Monster question

    Quote Originally Posted by Classical Mushroom View Post
    Well if the Dragon was already affected by Hatred at the beginning of the Combat as a result of the Lord having it then i wouldn't allow it. However if the Lord didn't have hatred and then the Mount gained it after the Lord had been slain then yeah i would as its the first turn the dragon has been affected by Hatred.

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    Re: Hatred Monster question

    Ordinarily, I would agree with you all, but this Q&A from the Empire FAQ gives me pause.

    Q. As hatred normally only works in the first turn of a clsoe combat, when a player elects to martyr flagellants in a second or subsequent round of combat, do the flagellants still get to re roll missed attacks?

    A. Yes, as the effects are renewed at the beginning of each round of combat, which effectively counts as their first round of combat.

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    Re: Hatred Monster question

    I've wondered the same regarding Black Coaches sucking up power dice and becoming subject to hatred after the first round of combat, but the Empire FAQ isn't enough for me to claim an additional advantage over my opponent

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    Re: Hatred Monster question

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganymede View Post
    Ordinarily, I would agree with you all, but this Q&A from the Empire FAQ gives me pause.

    Q. As hatred normally only works in the first turn of a clsoe combat, when a player elects to martyr flagellants in a second or subsequent round of combat, do the flagellants still get to re roll missed attacks?

    A. Yes, as the effects are renewed at the beginning of each round of combat, which effectively counts as their first round of combat.
    Interesting, because they went the other way for SKaven getting hatred from the Screaming Bell. They said that the rat's would only get the bonus if it was the first round of that combat.

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    Re: Hatred Monster question

    i knew i'd seen something like this before. the skaven faq (thanks for mentioning it)
    Q. If an 11-12 result is rolled when ringing the Screaming Bell (Skaven units become subject to hatred) does a Skaven unit already engaged in combat get to re-roll failed hits?
    A. Only if it is in the first round of combat – the normal rules for Hatred still apply.
    thats really strange that they would rule opposite ways for it...well only not really weird it is GW after all. I could maybe see them giving the flagelent one more power since it involves losing people to do it, as well only lasting during that combat phase. the skaven one would last through your combat phase and your opponents next one making it a little more powerful...maybe.

  12. #12

    Re: Hatred Monster question

    I would let the drago reroll, its common sense, the dragon just lost his little budy, so he hates inmediatly, he wont wait until the killers flew to start hating it.

    Also, in the first round the dragon didnt hate the enemy, so the first of turn it hates should be the turn it rerolls.

    But if you cant agree, roll dices.

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    Re: Hatred Monster question

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimgormx View Post
    I would let the drago reroll, its common sense, the dragon just lost his little budy, so he hates inmediatly, he wont wait until the killers flew to start hating it.

    Also, in the first round the dragon didnt hate the enemy, so the first of turn it hates should be the turn it rerolls.

    But if you cant agree, roll dices.
    indeed this makes the most sence to me,
    its just logic that the dragon can reroll, because he hates from the moment the rider dies, so in my opinion yes it can reroll

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    Re: Hatred Monster question

    I can not belive that you people are actually even going to look at this like this.
    NO the dragon can not reroll failed to hits, because its not the first round of combat. No he does not have to give chase if the enemy flees because its not the first turn. Hatred has a very exact effect in the main rule book. The mount gets those effect exactly as described, not some odd ball mumbo jumbo crap you lot are on about.
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    Re: Hatred Monster question

    Quote Originally Posted by WusteGeist View Post
    I can not belive that you people are actually even going to look at this like this.
    NO the dragon can not reroll failed to hits, because its not the first round of combat. No he does not have to give chase if the enemy flees because its not the first turn. Hatred has a very exact effect in the main rule book. The mount gets those effect exactly as described, not some odd ball mumbo jumbo crap you lot are on about.
    If we follow your strict reading of the rules as above then you get the situation where a unit charges into an existing combat it will not get re-rolls for hatred because it isn't the first round of the combat.

    Alternatively you could argue that the the new unit charging in makes it an entirely new combat so all units with Hatred get their re-rolls again?

    I like Spirit's response of use common sence and if it is the first round of combat with Hatred available then apply it (i would ignore the Screaming Bell FAQ).
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    Re: Hatred Monster question

    Quote Originally Posted by WusteGeist View Post
    I can not belive that you people are actually even going to look at this like this.
    NO the dragon can not reroll failed to hits, because its not the first round of combat. No he does not have to give chase if the enemy flees because its not the first turn. Hatred has a very exact effect in the main rule book. The mount gets those effect exactly as described, not some odd ball mumbo jumbo crap you lot are on about.
    Calm down there sonny. While you are right that the dragon cannot re-roll his attacks, if he has hatred, he does have to pursue, no matter what round it is. Still, if he gains hatred he is also gaining frenzy so would have two reasons to do it

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    Chapter Master Nicha11's Avatar
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    Re: Hatred Monster question

    Quote Originally Posted by WusteGeist View Post
    I not some odd ball mumbo jumbo crap you lot are on about.

    Probably not the best way to get your point across there mate
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  18. #18
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    Re: Hatred Monster question

    It is the same as getting hatred from the skaven bell, no matter when you get your hatred, it still has to be the first round of that combat for it to be useable
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  19. #19
    Chapter Master Spirit's Avatar
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    Re: Hatred Monster question

    Quote Originally Posted by WusteGeist View Post
    I can not belive that you people are actually even going to look at this like this.
    NO the dragon can not reroll failed to hits, because its not the first round of combat. No he does not have to give chase if the enemy flees because its not the first turn. Hatred has a very exact effect in the main rule book. The mount gets those effect exactly as described, not some odd ball mumbo jumbo crap you lot are on about.
    YES, he does have to chase.

    And if you're so sure about the rules, why does the empire FAQ contradict you?

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    Re: Hatred Monster question

    Quote Originally Posted by eyeolas View Post
    It is the same as getting hatred from the skaven bell, no matter when you get your hatred, it still has to be the first round of that combat for it to be useable
    But what about the hatred gained from martyring flagellants? You can't just selectively ignore that tidbit of information.

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