Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 40

Thread: Sword Masters, how many is too many? Teach a noob

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Chapter Master static grass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Vestfold (not the Riddermark)
    Posts
    2,785

    Sword Masters, how many is too many? Teach a noob

    Hello hello static grass here.

    Long story short: I have played dwarves for years. Occassionally I am able to drag them upto the top ten of a tourney simply by setting out my stall and shooting everything to death. But I am sick of playing dwarf, I get one phase in the game to decide what happens (shooting) the rest I am either reacting to events or on the receiving end. They are now on the shelf awaiting a new armybook and M4.

    Anyway I have some HE and I am loaning a friends HE for the next tourney in errr 11 days. SO I have read the HE tactica ad nausem and like any dwarf player I have boiled my thoughts down to...

    How many of these amazing kick @ss Swordmasters can I reasonably cram into 1750points? and how should they be arrayed?

    In terms of logistics I have 46 models waiting to slice through everything like a flying chainsaw.

    I am thinking:

    A. One unit of deathstar doom. I will need a scroll caddy to make sure nothing else happens to them.
    B. One large unit say 21 flanked by two smaller units upto 12 in size. One heavy hit unit with some flank guarding plus flank charge options.
    C. Multiple units of ASF death. 4-5 units of 7-9 swordmasters.
    This give the option of more flanking.

    I do intend to squeeze in some DPs and a unit a sea guard.

    On a side note I have always loved the saphery fluff and my fledgling force is lovingly painted in hues of blue purple and grey.

  2. #2
    Chapter Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,223

    Re: Sword Masters, how many is too many? Teach a noob

    I dont think a T3 deathstar without shooting and only one scroll caddy will do anything except for dying against most armies. You can only hit one unit a turn (if you catch any) and if you kill that unit the enemy will be free to shoot/magic you again.

  3. #3
    Chapter Master slingersam's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Edmonton, AB
    Posts
    1,560

    Re: Sword Masters, how many is too many? Teach a noob

    I agree with the above poster, as I don't think high elves
    are even capable of making a decent death star list.
    But if you decide to use about 500-700 points on core
    and other things you will need then you can get up to
    70-83 swordmasters which is quite a lot.
    Asalam alakum(A-Salam-A-lak-um) means Peace be upon you (Y)
    Orks is to Tyranids as California is to the Gold rush.
    Times I've been called Slingerslam instead of slingersam: 4

  4. #4
    Chapter Master static grass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Vestfold (not the Riddermark)
    Posts
    2,785

    Re: Sword Masters, how many is too many? Teach a noob

    Thanks for the feedback. I had three ideas not just death star what do you think of the other suggestions?

  5. #5
    Chapter Master Conotor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Guelph/Waterloo, Ontario
    Posts
    1,021

    Re: Sword Masters, how many is too many? Teach a noob

    Make units of 9 swordies, 7 wide. This give max killing power until the 3rd guy dies, witch is pretty decent.

  6. #6
    Chapter Master static grass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Vestfold (not the Riddermark)
    Posts
    2,785

    Re: Sword Masters, how many is too many? Teach a noob

    Okay so a vote for MSU. hmm interesting. I am abit worried about the lack of combat resolution though.

  7. #7
    Librarian sroblin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Washington DC
    Posts
    414

    Re: Sword Masters, how many is too many? Teach a noob

    Combat resolution really isn't in the cards with Swordmasters, IMO; they win by killing stuff, and if they can't then they're doomed anyway because the return attacks will slaughter them. The critical thing is to make sure their front-rank reaches the enemy (and stays at) full strength of 6 or 7. I like units of 12 personally; if they avoid getting shot, they can start with +1 CR, but more likely the rear rankers will help absorbe some casualties. As long as they get 12-14 greatsword attacks, they should do ok.

    The trickiest issue with such an army, I think, is devising a strategy to protect them from shooting. Screening units? Magic? Diversionary fast attackers?
    Last edited by sroblin; 07-04-2009 at 12:03.

  8. #8
    Chapter Master static grass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Vestfold (not the Riddermark)
    Posts
    2,785

    Re: Sword Masters, how many is too many? Teach a noob

    Well at the last tourney there was very a limited number of shooty armies. I will have to look at this area though. I guess I will be taking an eagle to hunt down enemy shooty stuff.

  9. #9
    Librarian sroblin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Washington DC
    Posts
    414

    Re: Sword Masters, how many is too many? Teach a noob

    You could invest in a decent magic phase, kind of of going with the saphery theme, and use lore of life (howler wind or the rain lord spells) against shooting. Both are easy to cast even with level 2s.

  10. #10
    Chapter Master static grass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Vestfold (not the Riddermark)
    Posts
    2,785

    Re: Sword Masters, how many is too many? Teach a noob

    Good thinking batman! But to get this magic spell off will I need two mages?

  11. #11
    Librarian sroblin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Washington DC
    Posts
    414

    Re: Sword Masters, how many is too many? Teach a noob

    Quote Originally Posted by static grass View Post
    Good thinking batman! But to get this magic spell off will I need two mages?
    Realistically, yes. To have a good chance of getting any one spell, you have to have enough casting power (including casting other spells) to get through the opponents casting dice.

    Also, if you really want to ensure that you will have one of those two spells on a level 2, you need the seer staff, or gamble with the silver wand. (With a level 4, this is not as much a problem.)

  12. #12
    Chapter Master static grass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Vestfold (not the Riddermark)
    Posts
    2,785

    Re: Sword Masters, how many is too many? Teach a noob

    Wow so many great responses! I am truely impressed.

    @Makarion.

    I like what you are suggesting. The concept behind the list is the characters assist the units getting to combat and in the case of the BSB staying there. Quite opposite to what I am used too. I note the eagle suggestion.

    @Ultimo Ninja.

    Ahh a straight talker! Come and sit down Eagles again. I like the lion chariot model and unit but time is of the essence for me. Dragon Princes will have to suffice, I can keep them bare bones though. The bolt thrower is also a good suggestion I know how they work as a dwarf player

    If I every get around to an army of chrace then deathstar it is I think though Caledor and Avelorn are more likely to get a theme army first from me.

    Both of you have suggested 2 units of 14 at this point.

    @Polobuch.

    You clearly fell into a box of SM minis as a child. Your list is similar to my concept list when I started the saphery theme. My favourite part of your list is the Ellyrion banner on the SM unit. I had the same idea too. What gives a better armour save than 2" of wood? when you have a unit like this then setting up terrain becomes your secret deployment phase *Shakes fist at WE players*

    @srobin. Okay 2 lvl 2 mages it is. No one has suggested less than this so far. It is good for the theme too. I like all the double up ideas in this thread it reminds of being in the army. If it is worth taking then it is worth take 2 of

    Thanks for all your great comments guys!

  13. #13
    Chapter Master static grass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Vestfold (not the Riddermark)
    Posts
    2,785

    Re: Sword Masters, how many is too many? Teach a noob

    As an Epilogue to this thread.

    I went with.

    2 units of 21 spearmen with FC

    2 units of 14 SMs with FC one with war banner and the other with lion standard.

    1 unit of 6 DPs.

    2 Great eagles

    1 BSB with banner of sorcery.

    1 lvl 2 mage with dispell scroll and thingy that lets you pick spells

    1 lvl 2 mage with dispell scroll and jade amulet (extra power dice)

    I played against a friends VC and had a fun evening playing warhammer I got to move and cast spells and charge. Hurrah! Good bye dwarves! I got off more flank charges during that game than my previous 5 years playing warhammer

    It was a good game of cagey manouvering against a wiley opponent for the first two turns. Then four turns of unrelenting blood letting. Khaine would be pleased.

    However once swords had been stilled and we counted the dead it turns out I won with a massacre. It is very nice to win. More importantly however it is more nice to have fun playing warhammer, I don't need a shooting phase.

    Using magic was a bit funky the extra power dice are useful. Most turns I would successfully cast about 4 spells with maybe 1 dispelled. This is a very good return on investment.

    Leadership wise I am still quite low - the BSB is vital as are the magic banners on the SMs.

    On the armylist as a whole I am happy that it works as is. I know it needs tweaking but I might be able to squeeze in another game before the weekend to do so. Other than this I am happy to take this tiny army to the tourney and hopefully avoid any dwarf players in the first round

  14. #14

    Re: Sword Masters, how many is too many? Teach a noob

    Quote Originally Posted by static grass View Post
    My favourite part of your list is the Ellyrion banner on the SM unit. I had the same idea too. What gives a better armour save than 2" of wood?
    Not having my book here, I can't remember, but does the Ellyrion banner allow "you" to see through 2" of forests?

    If not, that wonderful "armour save" will work both ways and your opponent will happily ignore said SMs until they stick their heads out to be shot off...

  15. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,740

    Re: Sword Masters, how many is too many? Teach a noob

    Quote Originally Posted by Cats Laughing View Post
    Not having my book here, I can't remember, but does the Ellyrion banner allow "you" to see through 2" of forests?

    If not, that wonderful "armour save" will work both ways and your opponent will happily ignore said SMs until they stick their heads out to be shot off...
    Ignores difficult terrain.. but you can't charge anything without seeing it.. which the banner doesn't allow.

  16. #16
    Commander Makarion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio (USA)
    Posts
    901

    Re: Sword Masters, how many is too many? Teach a noob

    2 level 2 mages
    BSB w/ the ring to make him a level 1 as well

    1 unit of 10 archers
    2 units of 14 swordmasters
    1 unit of 5 dragon princes with the banner of sorcery

    Left over points to taste - an eagle and RBT could be nice.
    History is not written by those who are right
    But by those who are left.

  17. #17
    Chaplain Ultimo ninja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    186

    Re: Sword Masters, how many is too many? Teach a noob

    2 units of swordmasters going up the middle will need screening. Period.

    I suggest eagles. Send them out front to get shot. 2 eagles out front, 2 bolt throwers in the back.

    use chariots for the flank.
    If you dont have points for magic offense, get a caddy or two and use drain magic.

    Hopefully 2 strong unite of sword masters, the bts, and the chariots can kill enough to get you the win.

    For HE's the best deathstar unit is white lions with a mage in them or maybe a special char. Tarpit= phoenix gaurd with magic banner and maybe a hero/ mage.

  18. #18

    Re: Sword Masters, how many is too many? Teach a noob

    I have this army based on: swordmasters:
    3 mages with the usual equiment...
    2*10 archers.
    20*SM+magic banner
    14*SM+battle banner
    14*SM+ no fear
    10*SM+movement banner
    7*SM+champ and musician
    2 eagles.
    oh yes and 7 DPs with some kit.

    the idea is that you have a VERY fragile army, so GO MEET your opponent and up close.

  19. #19
    Chapter Master Jericho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    3,632

    Re: Sword Masters, how many is too many? Teach a noob

    Holy smokes you got 3-4 spells per turn through VC magic defense with 8-10PD? They usually pack 6-7DD, and have several ways to get modifiers going on. I'm assuming he threw a ton of dice at Drain Magic every turn, allowing you to squeak everything else through?

    PS. I love your attitude. I wish you lived about 4,000 miles closer to my house, you'd be welcome to game with our club any time!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Zoidberg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Necr0n View Post
    So can Allies Of Convinience score?
    Only if dinner and the movie were both of a high quality...

  20. #20
    Chapter Master static grass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Vestfold (not the Riddermark)
    Posts
    2,785

    Re: Sword Masters, how many is too many? Teach a noob

    I made a dogs breakfast of my first magic phase - hey dwarf player here so he dispelled everything. He also happily pointed out that Drain magic should be cast last.

    He didn't have a very strong magic defense to start with 1 DS and I think 5 DD (note the "I think"). and he lost two vampires in turn 4 giving me a free hand afterwards. But you are correct Drain Magic is a real show stopper for VCs and he went for it every turn and yes there was a lot of squeaking (Praise Loec). Shield of saphery is fantastic for a 5+ spell.

    I did realize that the magic was going well for me - as a dwarf player most people never get more than 1 spell of a turn. I felt that most games I wont have it that good. I should modify the above statement though as I mainly got three spells each turn after dispells. But there was a critical turn (3) when I got off 4. 2 Shields of saph, Flames of the phoenix and a drain magic. I need it though. My 2 Swordmaster units where getting shredded by blood knights and black knights, in a nasty multiple engagement - it was a great gore fest.

    My opponent is a real sport. He has tolerated my dwarf army lists for long enough. The secondary objectives of the game was to shake of some warhammer cobwebs and examine the armies before the game. So my opponent now has the chance to take another look at the cavalry theme he has before the tourney hone it some more.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •