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Thread: Purging of the 1st founding, why are there only 18?

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  1. #1
    Veteran Sergeant DeClaw's Avatar
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    Purging of the 1st founding, why are there only 18?

    Of all the speculations and rumours about the 'real world' reasons for there being only 18 of the 20 legions recorded, dose anyone know the truth? And what theorys are there?

    Were there 20 leed designers of rouge trader, but only 18 picked names for the legions/primarchs?

    Is it a fluff reason? Or is the reason hidden in the fluff?

    If anyone knows (and is allowed to tell ) please tell as I am sure I'm not the only one who would be interested.
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  2. #2
    Commander Ophidicus's Avatar
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    Re: Purging of the 1st founding, why are there only 18?

    You might as well ask where "IT" came from. They don't tell, we ask, they still don't tell.

    But one of them's obviously Sigmar. But they won't tell you that.
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  3. #3
    Chapter Master sigur's Avatar
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    Re: Purging of the 1st founding, why are there only 18?

    Let's hope they'll never tell. Sacral things like the 1st founding always contain mysteries which should never be uncovered.
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  4. #4
    Chapter Master Sephiroth's Avatar
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    Re: Purging of the 1st founding, why are there only 18?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ophidicus
    But one of them's obviously Sigmar. But they won't tell you that.
    Doesn't it say he was born to mortal parents though?
    "As our bodies are armoured with adamantium, our souls are protected with loyalty. As our bolters are charged with death for the Emperors enemies, our thoughts are charged with wisdom. As our ranks advance, so does our devotion, for are we not space marines? Are we not the chosen of the Emperor, his loyal servants unto death?"
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  5. #5

    Re: Purging of the 1st founding, why are there only 18?

    The numbers of the missing legions correspond with Roman legions of the same number who were also lost. That's probably the favourite theory as to where they got the idea from.

    Despite the way the worlds are seperate now, Warhammer and 40K used to be very closely linked, as in the WHworld was in the 40K universe somewhere, and sigmar was obviously a lost primarch.
    The other one was George Formby, who decided that a life of war wasn't for him and decided to ply his trade as a cheeky northern chappy of some repute instead.
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  6. #6
    Commander Ophidicus's Avatar
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    Re: Purging of the 1st founding, why are there only 18?

    Depends what 'it' is. Where does it say that?
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  7. #7
    Chapter Master Sephiroth's Avatar
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    Re: Purging of the 1st founding, why are there only 18?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ophidicus
    Depends what 'it' is. Where does it say that?
    I was referring to the WFB background in general on him. I'm not exactly a devoted fan of that fluff, but recall reading he was born to parents in the Unberogen tribe. Gav Thorpe wrote a short story in Inferno magazine where he saved the Dwarf King, and the men under his command referred to him as 'surpassing even his father', etc.

    Also, most of the background I've read states the night of his birth was marked with the appearance of a twin-tailed comet, which the human tribes took as a sign of great portent from the gods.
    "As our bodies are armoured with adamantium, our souls are protected with loyalty. As our bolters are charged with death for the Emperors enemies, our thoughts are charged with wisdom. As our ranks advance, so does our devotion, for are we not space marines? Are we not the chosen of the Emperor, his loyal servants unto death?"
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  8. #8

    Re: Purging of the 1st founding, why are there only 18?

    Well yeah, that's the current version - hence Gav Thorpe writing it.

    look....two went missing, a big comet lands on the WHW and sigmar the young whelp jumps out and starts bashing stuff. Easy, simple, true (for a given value of true).
    A problem GW has is trying to go back over the background with new stuff, which they do alarmingly often. Things like are bound to crop up when they keep changing the story.
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  9. #9
    Chapter Master VanHel's Avatar
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    Re: Purging of the 1st founding, why are there only 18?

    Sigmar isnt one of the two missing primarchs. GW has stated this time and time again.
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  10. #10
    Commander geoffkemp's Avatar
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    Re: Purging of the 1st founding, why are there only 18?

    Yes it was an adminisatrive Error
    Geoff
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  11. #11
    Commander damz451's Avatar
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    Re: Purging of the 1st founding, why are there only 18?

    there prolly legions that never found a primarch thus couldnt stabalise their geneseed and were dismantled, or that they primarchs were corrupted by chaos or something
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  12. #12
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    Re: Purging of the 1st founding, why are there only 18?

    Quote Originally Posted by damz451
    there prolly legions that never found a primarch thus couldnt stabalise their geneseed and were dismantled, or that they primarchs were corrupted by chaos or something
    This seems the most likely of all the theories and, unfortunately, the least exciting. GW probalby did it to keep something in reserve, plotwise. In actuality, they may have just shot themselves in the foot.

    Also, I don't like the theory that the WHFB world is a planet inside the WH40K world. It just seems to cheapen both games. This may have been the intent earlier within GW, but it is much less supported now. The two games have the same inter-continuity as all 20 of the James Bond movies. Fantasy and 40k both have the chaos gods, just like all "Bond" Movies have James Bond, but these are only similarities in plot, not proof of continuity.

    By the way, how old is James Bond supposed to be now? 100?
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  13. #13
    Chapter Master Chaos and Evil's Avatar
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    Re: Purging of the 1st founding, why are there only 18?

    Quote Originally Posted by Decius
    By the way, how old is James Bond supposed to be now? 100?
    He's as old as Sean Connery.

    That'd make him 134 then.
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  14. #14

    Re: Purging of the 1st founding, why are there only 18?

    Sources indicate that the assupmtion of sigmar being a primarch are true.

    Most of the primarchs had some sort pf father to teach them during there early years. The IA of guiliman for example.
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  15. #15

    Re: Purging of the 1st founding, why are there only 18?

    This has been gone over sooo many times now. Everyone knows there's correlations between the two worlds, it's to be expected. I mean seriously, GW can't come up with original material without ripping off Lord of the Rings, Starship Troopers, and everything else out there. Do you seriously expect them to not rip off their own universes?

    That said, Sigmar being a primarch still doesn't fit into the fluff of 40k. The two legions had records expunged. If Sigmar was a primarch, there's no room in the fantasy storyline for a legion to have been made from his geneseed (at least to my knowledge, i'm more up on 40k fluff than fantasy, feel free to correct me here).

    The other one was George Formby, who decided that a life of war wasn't for him and decided to ply his trade as a cheeky northern chappy of some repute instead.
    This however, sounds perfectly plausible to me.
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  16. #16
    Chaplain TheSaint's Avatar
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    Re: Purging of the 1st founding, why are there only 18?

    I thought all the legions were mentioned in a very very early Rogue Trader book, or perhaps the Astronomicon. The missing Legions should be THE RAINBOW WARRIORS and the FIRE HAWKS (or something like that).

    I think the Rainbow guys were expunged due to their ugly colour scheme. And the Fire Hawks were lost in the Warp and sort'a returned as the Legion of the Damned.

    But then again, I might be wrong.
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  17. #17
    Commander Captain Ardias's Avatar
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    Re: Purging of the 1st founding, why are there only 18?

    The fire hawks where of the 21th founding(called the cured founding)
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    And purge the heretic:skull:

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  18. #18
    Commander ankara halla's Avatar
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    Re: Purging of the 1st founding, why are there only 18?

    @TheSaint: You are wrong, they are both successor chapters.

    As to the two legions, there has never been any official fluff written about the two missing legions and there propably never will be. As long as there's no written fluff people can go nuts trying to figure out "the reason" behind GW not writing fluff about them.
    Give it a rest allready, the people writing the background for both of the universes change all the time as do the universes themselfs (sadly quite often going over allready established fluff) and that's all "the reason" there is to it.
    The Roman Legions -reference is in all likelyhood the original reason why there are two missing legions in the first place.
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  19. #19
    Chaplain TheSaint's Avatar
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    Re: Purging of the 1st founding, why are there only 18?

    I am pretty sure that there is a book in which all of the 20 legions are mentioned. But we would need to ask somebody really ancient. Does Sean Connery play 40K?
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  20. #20

    Re: Purging of the 1st founding, why are there only 18?

    Bjorn The Fell Handed? An Eldar, one of the Fallen, Cypher, any CSM. The list goes on !



    Quote Originally Posted by TheSaint
    I am pretty sure that there is a book in which all of the 20 legions are mentioned. But we would need to ask somebody really ancient. Does Sean Connery play 40K?
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