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  1. #1
    Chapter Master Drogmir's Avatar
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    Question Eldar and Human breeding as it stands now

    Looking through my old fabled Rogue Trader book I noticed a little blurb on the introduction part to Eldar.

    In a basic summary it said, genetically Eldar are very close to humans, with being paler and having pointed ears being the only noticeable difference.

    Then the article mentions how viable offspring of Eldar and Human is a rare but viable occasion and that Imperial scientists haven't been able to figure out why beyond the idea that humans and Eldar shared a common ancestor.

    In the 3rd edition rulebook they stated how some "misguided" humans find Eldar to be beautiful.

    Now on current fluff, I know that Eldar have the whole "every Eldar is psychic now." which was missing in the original fluff.

    But can anybody find some direct quotes regarding whether humans and Eldar can still interbreed? From what I can tell GW just seems to have a "ho hum let's not mention it anymore vibe."
    Last edited by Drogmir; 23-04-2009 at 00:08.
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  2. #2

    Re: Eldar and Human breeding as it stands now

    Let's run with that vibe and not mention it anymore.

    Seriously.

  3. #3
    Librarian klstrider28's Avatar
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    Re: Eldar and Human breeding as it stands now

    Quote Originally Posted by Aliarzathanil View Post
    Let's run with that vibe and not mention it anymore.

    Seriously.
    2nded

    though I sincerely doubt that it'd be possible.

    Humans and Eldar are two different SPECIES that evolved isolated from eachother (a galaxy and many years apart).

    Biology says not a chance...

  4. #4

    Re: Eldar and Human breeding as it stands now

    Quote Originally Posted by klstrider28 View Post
    Humans and Eldar are two different SPECIES that evolved isolated from eachother (a galaxy and many years apart).
    Now, how do we know that? Mankind might well be a creation of the Old Ones too, and interchangeability is the mark of a good craftsman...

    Unless the fluff covers this, too. I'm drawing a blank.

  5. #5
    Chapter Master Hellebore's Avatar
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    Re: Eldar and Human breeding as it stands now

    The Xenology book specifically says that eldar DNA is NOT like human DNA. The description and image shows a 4 sided DNA strand, rather than the standard Earth two sided.

    So, Xenology removes the means for the hybrid to exist, without having to say that a hybrid can't exist.

    In the same way that for example, we say gravity pulls down so apples hit the floor. However in the newst information gravity pulls up. The basis for the apple hitting the floor has changed and so it now must go up, even though the newest information does not state that it does.

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    Re: Eldar and Human breeding as it stands now

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellebore View Post
    The Xenology book specifically says that eldar DNA is NOT like human DNA. The description and image shows a 4 sided DNA strand, rather than the standard Earth two sided.
    Pretty sure it's quintuple helix in Xenology.

  7. #7

    Re: Eldar and Human breeding as it stands now

    A cause of Alpha level psykers.......Hunt them!
    Ah but In Typhu's fluff it mentions him originating from a slave world, owned by a psyker race(perhaps hinting eldar), and he has descended from that blood line.
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    Chapter Master Hellebore's Avatar
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    Re: Eldar and Human breeding as it stands now

    Well, humanity appeared ~59 million years after the old ones disappeared. The eldar existed throughout that time in a different part of the galaxy.

    You would also have to argue that orks are thus breedable with humans and/or eldar, because they were made by the old ones too.

    Hellebore
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  9. #9

    Re: Eldar and Human breeding as it stands now

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellebore View Post
    Well, humanity appeared ~59 million years after the old ones disappeared. The eldar existed throughout that time in a different part of the galaxy.
    Truetrue. Timescale was what I was missing. Still, I can see some possible latent Old One influence on Humanity...so many of their other creations were bipedal, had arms and a head and all that...

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    Re: Eldar and Human breeding as it stands now

    If they are ever written to be able to breed with humans

    then surely, they would also be able to breed with orks.

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    Scout Delane Oktar's Avatar
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    Re: Eldar and Human breeding as it stands now

    Lets compare........you are a beautiful bird of paradise (eldar) and you think that semi evolved single celled organism (humanity) looks like a good lay............or if you want to get slightly more evolved.....monkeys have pretty much the same bits as we do but we're still VERY incompatible...........

  12. #12
    Chapter Master Hellebore's Avatar
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    Re: Eldar and Human breeding as it stands now

    They would have to have done something to little rats/primatoids in the late cretaceous or early Palaeogene to have an affect on humanity 60 million years later.

    Strangely the races that still exist today from those created by the old ones are all warrior races designed purely to fight the necron horde (or the enslavers that came after). We don't see any races that were expected to continue. Even the eldar are just a psychic gun created by the old ones to point at the necrons.

    I suppose it's not strange that WARRIOR races survived, that's what they do. But humanity couldn't have been a warrior race because they made those virtually instantly when they needed them. Poof! Eldar to kill necrons. Poof! Orks to defend against enslavers.

    I can't see humanity being an old one experiment because of the time gap and because they would have no purpose.
    There are many races in the galaxy that aren't products of the old ones. The kroot and tau definitely aren't (although the tau were mucked with by someone after they appeared). The Nicassar, Enoulians, Tarelians, Demiurg, are all unlikely to be Old One creations.

    Hellebore
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  13. #13

    Re: Eldar and Human breeding as it stands now

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellebore View Post
    They would have to have done something to little rats/primatoids in the late cretaceous or early Palaeogene to have an affect on humanity 60 million years later.

    Strangely the races that still exist today from those created by the old ones are all warrior races designed purely to fight the necron horde (or the enslavers that came after). We don't see any races that were expected to continue. Even the eldar are just a psychic gun created by the old ones to point at the necrons.

    I suppose it's not strange that WARRIOR races survived, that's what they do. But humanity couldn't have been a warrior race because they made those virtually instantly when they needed them. Poof! Eldar to kill necrons. Poof! Orks to defend against enslavers.

    I can't see humanity being an old one experiment because of the time gap and because they would have no purpose.
    There are many races in the galaxy that aren't products of the old ones. The kroot and tau definitely aren't (although the tau were mucked with by someone after they appeared). The Nicassar, Enoulians, Tarelians, Demiurg, are all unlikely to be Old One creations.

    Hellebore
    Good points there...however, I could see us being some experiment-gone-wrong...say, the Old Ones are tinkering, inserting their tell-tale physiological markers when suddenly, the Necrontyr menace is a more pressing manner. Poof, we get abandoned, and left to evolution's devices. Eventually, a somewhat altered version of the Old One's vision emerges- mankind. Abandonment can explain the slow pace, and our differences from other created races. Hell, the steady increase in psykers could be the genetic engineering still at work...we're turning into Eldar! Oh, phear!

  14. #14
    Chapter Master Hellebore's Avatar
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    Re: Eldar and Human breeding as it stands now

    Five sided? Well, either way it ain't gonna happen. We can't even combine normal TWO stranded DNA from two seperate groups on earth NOW, so the idea that an alien species can do it with quad or quin DNA is ridiculous.

    Hellebore
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    Re: Eldar and Human breeding as it stands now

    Aye - and there is also that Eldar reproduction involves multiple periods of insemination (the Eldar couple mate several times during pregnancy), which human reproduction does not.

    Eldar look like humans because 40k has its roots in WHFB. But aside from surface appearance, they are completely alien.

  16. #16
    Chapter Master Hellebore's Avatar
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    Re: Eldar and Human breeding as it stands now

    Hmmm, another thing to consider is that genetically humanity can be traced in a nice big genetic web to everything around them. For the old ones to have manipulated the 60 million year old ancestors of humanity, they would have had to leave genes that don't make sense for the genetic history of life on earth. But humanity clearly fits into that history.

    *shrug*, I don't think humanity was developed by the old ones in any way shape or form, but that's just me.

    Hellebore
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  17. #17
    Chapter Master Drogmir's Avatar
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    Re: Eldar and Human breeding as it stands now

    Ok well I realize in real life that could never happen, but that fluff from the Rogue Trader days is still there.

    Which makes me wonder why they even had it in the first place.
    Last edited by Drogmir; 23-04-2009 at 03:08.
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    Re: Eldar and Human breeding as it stands now

    Xenology is full of crap though. Tau with hooves, right?

    Besides, if you want to bring real science into it, I don't think a quintuple helix is even possible. As in, chemically it doesn't work.

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    Re: Eldar and Human breeding as it stands now

    Quote Originally Posted by massey View Post
    Xenology is full of crap though.
    So are people who actually like the whole half-elf concept. There's a reason GW let it die.

    Quote Originally Posted by massey View Post
    Besides, if you want to bring real science into it, I don't think a quintuple helix is even possible. As in, chemically it doesn't work.
    Yes it does, but the arrangement of the base chemicals is very, very different from that of an even-numbered helix. You can try making a model of it in Google SketchUp or Autodesk 3D Studio Max, if you like.

  20. #20
    Chapter Master Hellebore's Avatar
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    Re: Eldar and Human breeding as it stands now

    So 25 year old background is still valid but newer stuff is not? The fact is that it HAS been contradicted. The chief librarian of the Ultramarines is not a half eldar these days.

    So as far as I am concerned, even if you discount Xenology, it's still not possible. Too much peripheral information has changed for the concept from RT to be possible. A known half eldar would be exterminated not given a position in one of the most prestigious chapters in the galaxy.

    EDIT: Out of Game, there is also the statement made by Rick Priestley (I believe in one of his Standard Bearer articles when filling in for Jervis) that he doesn't like half breeds as they dilute archetypes. Rick P likes strong archetypes. This is the same reason races in WFB are no longer producing half elves or half orcs. So Out of Game one of the core designers dislikes them and in game 40k has changed so much in the areas this is pertinent that it isn't possible now anyway.


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    Last edited by Hellebore; 23-04-2009 at 03:02.
    "Humanity's Insignificance pales in comparison to its Ego." (Sir Rumplestiltskin)

    "The capacity to think does not assign importance to your thoughts, it merely indicates you can." (Sir Rumplestiltskin)

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