The Emperor as Warp Daemon

[Temmy]

Reading some other threads about the Emperor, it struck me that the Emperor may in fact be a kind of Warp Daemon. In Realm of Chaos it is stated that independent daemons are sometimes generated by mortals. What is needed is a commonality of experience and geographic proximity. Events such as traumatic disasters or a heroic last stand can cause the shadow selves of those involved to flow together and create an independent daemon. There are actually death cults whose members live as murderers to establish a commonality of experience. They will then come together and commit suicide in the hopes their souls will merge in the warp and create a daemon.

Was this process used to create the Emperor? The Shamans would have shared a commonality of experience. When they killed themselves at once in the same place, their geographic and temporal proximity would allow their souls to merge, creating a new daemon that embodied the hopes of the Shamans to save humanity from Chaos. What would be needed next is a way to incarnate the daemon in the Materium. To do this they would choose the greatest of their numbers, and a few remaining Shamans would actually perform a ritual of possession in him (or perhaps he performed to ritual on himself). Through the ritual, the Daemon would enter its vessel, merge with it and become the Emperor.

[MajorWesJanson]

Look up "Star Child"

*Resets Clock*

[Mannimarco]

ah the star child, largely retconned IIRC but does occasionally turn up in some of the inquisitor material

dont these independent daemons disapate after a while?

arnt independent daemons still reliant on the warp to sustain them? the emperor didnt need a link to the warp to sustain him

[Temmy]

Aye, but the star child was what the emperor's soul became after the death of the Emperor. My theory is that the Emperor was in the beginning created as a Daemon.

[Mannimarco]

i dont think he was originally created as a daemon, daemons are warp entities, the emperor wasnt, he was of flesh and blood

daemons exist in the immaterium and can be summoned into real space, the emperor seems to have always existed in real space

daemons eventually fade away back to the warp when the energy runs out, the emperor never faded away, he was on terra creating the primarchs, he took part in the crusade for a while, he returned to terra, he did a whole lot of stuff over a long period of time, if he was originally a "daemon" he would have faded out long before accomplishing any of this

[Temmy]

Daemons do not necessarily fade away. The lesser warp entities can create their own daemons in the same way Nurgle can create a Great Unclean one. The smallest warp powers will often invest all their power in the creation of a single daemon, in essence they become the daemon. On the negative side, this daemon loses any chance of growing in power. On the plus side, their existence is assured and they do not need to worry about their energy dissipating.

In any case, the Emperor did not always exist. We know he was created by the Shamans, and the method they used to create him was very similar to the method that brings about the existence of independent warp entities. Once the warp daemon is created, its existence would be assured by having it possess a volunteer, making the fluctuations of the warp irrelevant to it. The union of warp daemon and flesh and blood host could create the Emperor.

[Mannimarco]

ah im getting it now yeah

thing about that is if the emperor was indeed a warp entity then was channeled down into a host, yes its true that the warp entity emperor wouldnt need to worry about the warp anymore as he would have a physical host body to sustain him however codex daemonhunters tells us that a body cannot sustain a warp entity indefinately, eventually it will fail meaning the entity will have to move on to a new host

[LexxBomb]

which is counted by William Kings "Farseer"... Some very rare individuals can sustain a deamon indefinetly

[Arkondak]

thing about that is if the emperor was indeed a warp entity then was channeled down into a host, yes its true that the warp entity emperor wouldnt need to worry about the warp anymore as he would have a physical host body to sustain him however codex daemonhunters tells us that a body cannot sustain a warp entity indefinately, eventually it will fail meaning the entity will have to move on to a new host

My personal whacko theory is that the shamans' sacrifice created the warp entity that is the Emperor's consciousness and soul but not his body. The emperor, as a warp entity posessed a number of individuals throughout history to guide humanity on his chosen path. The problem for the emperor was that the bodies were weak and mortal, and had a habit of dying. His progress was slowed as he was forced to possess a series of bodies, who history perceives as great leaders, upon the death of his host, the successors did not always follow the correct plan, and a great deal of effort was wasted re correcting the development of humanity.

The body that sits on the golden throne is the body of one of the two missing primarchs that was sent backwards to Terra in a point in time before the great crusade by the event that scattered the other primarchs across the galaxy.

When the missing primarch arrived on Terra, the Emperor joined with the infant, most likely voluntarily, as the posession would have been mutually beneficial to both parties, and finally had a physical form strong enough to contain his massive psychic power, allowing him to reveal himself and lead the human race directly for the first time. The emperor began to conquer the planet to begin the great crusade.

The emperor then created the 20 primarchs using his own genetic material (that of the primarch body he was inhabiting) as a blueprint, and triggered the event that scattered them deliberately, sending back the infant version of his physical form to allow him access to the primarch body at an earlier point in the timeline.

The emperor is now tied to his host body on the golden throne and therefore he cannot reincarnate, but he is growing in power as he is feeding off the sacrifice of unsanctioned psykers and the worship of billions of his faithful. Presently he manifests his own minor demons in the form of soritas living saints and the legion of the damned space marines.

[Philip S]

I'd go with the Emperor as a warp entity too. One that possesses a body, except I reckon he could only possess one. A 'perfect' mortal, that could house such a powerful essence and not perish (this does mean the Emperor may have displaced a 'soul' (warp image) else the body was artificially 'made').

In the current 40K: The Emperor is so powerful now as an entity, that if he tried to possess a mortal: the mortal body would probably explode into flame! This would leave the Emperor without a link to the materium and be sucked into the warp with all the other 'gods'.

This explains why he clings to 'life', or unlife, via the body he has. Even though it is effectively dead, it still is able to contain a his soul or a peace of it, and this allows him a link to reality.

He may desire this link to reality, as without it he may loose his mind and become as twisted as the chaos gods themselves...

Philip

[LexxBomb]

this could bring up an intersting question... what is the effect of Soul binding if the Emperor was a Warp entity... does having millions of Soul Bound bodies enable him to spread his 'soul' sround the universe and could this also be a way of his soul clinging to the mortal realm.

[Philip S]

this could bring up an intersting question... what is the effect of Soul binding if the Emperor was a Warp entity... does having millions of Soul Bound bodies enable him to spread his 'soul' sround the universe and could this also be a way of his soul clinging to the mortal realm.

A very interesting thought.

If one body could not contain him, what about millions of bodies? And what if these were the more warp resistant bodies of psykers.

It would give a new meaning to 'god is in all of us'. Or at lest the part the Deus Emperor thinks is part of the new psyker generation...

His chosen people?

Philip

[Lothlanathorian]

I miss Brusilov.

If people are saved by the Emperor, as in an Angel shows up and saves people, technically, this is a Daemon, as it is a Warp entity, yes?

[Philip S]

If people are saved by the Emperor, as in an Angel shows up and saves people, technically, this is a Daemon, as it is a Warp entity, yes?

Technically. Yes.

[Lothlanathorian]

Ah Star Child, you Chaos God of Order, you. How dare you hurt my brain so!

[weissengel86]

Daemon does not equal warp entity though. The Emperor would be a warp entity and not a daemon. Daemons are more then just a creature in the warp. Like the Chaos gods for example are not daemons themselves but create daemons. The enslavers are not daemons either but are entities of the warp.

In my opinion The Emperor would become a true warp god if his body ever fully died. The chaos Gods are empowered by their followers worship and emotions. The emperor himself has had ten millenia of worship by a vast amount of humans and psykers are sacrificed to him everyday. This is in addition to the fact that he was the greatest psyker in all of humanity and arguably all of existence (at least during his time, the Old Ones excluded ).

The term daemon has a very strong connotation to it and would not be an accurate term to describe the emperor. Angel would be more accurate. I would say warp God is the best term as he would be nothing less.

[Philip S]

The emperor himself has had ten millenia of worship by a vast amount of humans and psykers are sacrificed to him everyday.

Maybe he is a warp entity, much like the enslavers are warp entities, and the astral hounds (Hounds of Tindalos anyone?), and the other interesting one that turned up in the ye olde Rogue Trader: They Vampire. The could drain psi energy like other warp entities but could also assume other forms (Emperor seems to have done that before) and did not perish like warp entities (immortal). Vampires and warp entities also (according to RT) have an influence ability.

Could it be the Emperor is a Vampire? Or became a Vampire when mortally wounded? Or using the abilities/ technique of the Vampire to maintain his life?

"when I see a bird that walks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck."

if the Emperor is acting like a Vampire, and has used other abilities of the Vampire, the maybe he is a Vampire?

Too far?

Philip

[Mannimarco]

a new angle on it but yeah i like it

[Philip S]

a new angle on it but yeah i like it

Yeah it fun - more 'star vampire' than 'star child'. After all vampires are supposed to be powerful, immortal, and able to control humans.

I wonder if 'Dracula' is when the Emperor went on a bit of a bender, or perhaps (seeing as Dracula dies) that he was one of the Emperor's children?

It opens up all kinds of possibilities, great 'good' and great 'evil' could be brought to humanity by the Emperor.

You could tie this to the Greek myths too, and have the Emperor as a thunder god Zeus (Jupiter - all of them) as the god where a bit fickle. The gods seem to do some good things, but most of the time they were not very nice at all!

Philip