General White Dwarf Feedback Thread

[WanderingRogue]

A couple of months ago I started attending Central London Wargames Club where I now play 40K regularly.

When I first went there, I encountered 3 regular GT players.

@darkseer: really? i only live in north kent. where about is it? it would be nice to get my ass handed to me for a change - there is only so many times i can play the same armys at gw stores games nights.

[big squig]

I agree with what others have said about the LoTR battle reports lacking the incisiveness of 40K and WFB, and I agree it can be all to easy to bash a game I've only played 5 times and didn't really get on with, but alot of people seem not to be keen on the LoTR content in White Dwarf and considering that it covers between 1/4 to 1/3 of the mag itself it means I'm paying a £1-£1.33 for info that is poorly constructed and, certainly in my case, material that I'm not interested in. I'd rather see LoTR get it's own separate mag and have WD reduced in price. I also agree that WD really does need to lose or really reduce the Astronomicon, I mean I'm not so obsessed that I need to know where the local stores in greece are. I do like the return of the components feature in the back just for reference purposes as I'm not always able to get online or get to my local GW store.

And one last thing, more specialist games coverage would be nice

I haven't checked in the last couple of WDs but here in the states I don't think we have the astronmicon. It dosen't sound like a very good part of the mag so I feel really bad for you guys from the UK.

And I hate to complain again about peoples knee jerk reactions too LotR, but that is one of the worst reason to drop LotR from WD. I hear it ll the time and there ARE good reasons for LotR to get it's own mag, but thats not one of them. I don't like WHFB. It's not my cup of tea and I think the rules are utter crap. WHFB should be dropped from WD because it takes up half the mag and I'm tired of paying for something I don't read. Now everyone knows that's a dumb reason to warrent WHFB getting dropped form WD. The same logic applys across the board; 40K and LotR alike.

[Flame of Udun]

I see what you are saying big squig but I think GW should be focused on their own Universe not neglecting it in favour of a hashed up film/book tie in.

[Grimtuff]

I haven't checked in the last couple of WDs but here in the states I don't think we have the astronmicon. It dosen't sound like a very good part of the mag so I feel really bad for you guys from the UK.

You don't. From the few issues that I have seen of the US WD you have a pullout section that you can just chuck away.

When I spoke to Guy Haley at Games Day apparently his hands were tied on this situation. so looks like tough titties for us in the UK.

I long for the WD with a small Astronomicon in it.

[big squig]

Ah, ok. Yeah, we have a little pull out think. No one ever reads it, it justget's thrown away...unless your new to an area. Sucks that it takes up space in your guys mag.

I see what you are saying big squig but I think GW should be focused on their own Universe not neglecting it in favour of a hashed up film/book tie in.

Problem is, what makes you think that LotR is taking resources away from WHFB/40K? When LotR was added to WD it got bigger to accomidate the new coverage. LotR has like 3 designers and two sculpters, thats it. God knows how many the warhammers have. And lastly, lotR makes alot more money than is needed to produce and supply it. Where do you think the extra cash goes? To the warhammers and GW's other endevours. The only think that ever sucked budget away from the games (you) play was warhammer online.

None the less, every topic that goes off track into a LotR disscussion gets locked for going off topic. So I'll just drop it. Ya wanna discuss it, start a new thread.

[philbrad2]

theyve put a stop t that so i have heard. Too much hassle - so now it will be studio armys aor studio member armys from now on. Which is crap in my opinion but thats the line they are towing at the moment

That sucks big time. OK it can be a pain to organise and implement but I'd be happy with one such 'real world' gamers Batrep once every few months - perhaps once every 6 months. We don't all game with pristine,competition spec armies. I just loved seeing peoples tactics and army list choices made these batreps so much more interenting because it WASN'T GW staffers fighting it out. Think canning this out of hand is a missed opportunity.

I also think that I should be invited in for a game and show off my Deathwing army in a couple of months where I field 3000pts of Deathwing against 3000pts of Genestealers...but White Dwarf doesn't do fun, characterful, crazy battle reports like that anymore.

Ain't that the truth ...

:chrome:

[Flame of Udun]

None the less, every topic that goes off track into a LotR disscussion gets locked for going off topic. So I'll just drop it. Ya wanna discuss it, start a new thread.

Hey man I was just expressing what I feel is wrong with WD at the moment and I wasn't planning on "going postal" about LOTR, I just think that 40K and WFB are lacking at the moment and that perhaps they should consider getting a high standard with their own stuff instead of getting carried away with an external liscence. But hey thats just my opinion OK.

[Quetzl]

I've been buying White Dwarfs since issue 238 *Back when Mordheim was first released, and they only cost £3* But I do agree the latest couple of White Dwarfs have been a bit shabby, this is probably due to Guy Haley dropping the reigns and Owen Rees stumbling to pick them back up.

Firstly the magazine has lost its consiceness and seems to be a bit shabby at the beginning and the end. All of the designs are different throughout and it makes it really difficult to read. The astronomican is the main section which has been heavily hit by this, and I think that the addition of this piece a couple of years back was great as it combined some true hobbyness into the magazine, which after all is an advert.

Secondly the magazine needs to take a little bit more care on how it writes it's articles up, over the last couple of issues, I have seen quite a few spelling mistakes and lots of sentences which don't make sense at all. Someone is not doing their proof reading me thinks .

Thirdly the team need to include more about each system, for example in issue 314 Warhammer 40,000 didn't get a single desent article of much interest apart from the tiny Tau taster... I remember the days when there would be two battle reports in one issue , something which isn't picked up anymore. They also need to include more variation, I mean I can't remember the last time that the Empire were looked at in detail, or the last time Skaven were touched upon! This really needs to be sorted out and the systems need to be put into proportion, so that they are not just looking at the brand new Easterlings.

Lastly the team need to bring back some of the humour and goodness which used to grace the pages of white dwarf and lighten it back up, bring it away from a flickable advert and put it back where it belongs - a hobby magazine. Now I know that can never happen, as White Dwarfs purpose is to advertise the latest GW bling, but they could at least make the articles a bit more like they used to be.

Now I'm not dissing Owen Rees and I'm sure it must be hard to pick up the editorial seat of any magazine. So hopefully he will bring it all together . I still remember his battle report against Jarvis Johnsons Imperial Guard, and yes they had just been released... And geuss what Owen won with the Orks...!!!!! Wouldn't see that these days

[Flame of Udun]

Just another thing I thought of whilst reading about the new FW releases, why doesn't White Dwarf ever really feature any of the FW stuff? I know they occasionally mention the new models in the front of the mag but thats about it. I'd really love to see an actual Elysian army with a shed load of valkyries, or a proper 40k battle rep with titans, etc, etc. I mean they haven't supported the Tau IA3 campaign at all, OK perhaps because they were working on the new codex but I don't see why they couldn't do that with the Anphelion Campaign. That would rock!

[Astromarine]

I remember the days when there would be two battle reports in one issue , something which isn't picked up anymore.

Funny you should mention that...

Flame of Udun: I think the last time they did something like that was a Guard vs Orks Batrep with fliers, maybe 10 or 20 issues back. You're right, that would be really cool

[Delicious Soy]

I have a few suggestions, mainly tied to the first one:

Admitting to the Fallibility of GW

Can we possibly get some alternate opinions or at least a sense of humour when discussing things? Since buying WD regularly from #250 the writing has lost a great deal of character and has increasingly felt like we're being given the hard sell. Relax, if this is the hobbyists magazine its supposed to be, then can't we see some humour? This is a pastime, not a professional sport.

Batreps

I'd prefer random battle reports than tying them to releases. While I appreciate the need to show off the new army, it gets a little boring to see the inevitable victory of the new army. Some of the best bat-reps for WFB came with the release of 7th ed where there was no order to the bat reps and made for a far more fun read. Which brings me to the next thing. Personally, I don't really care for massive tactical insights in a bat-rep, I'm looking for a good fun game where stupid stuff happens and sometimes you just can't win because the dice hate you. Bat-reps featuring tourney players are dry boring reads where the game becomes too abstract, the game begins to resemble chess more than an entertaining romp.

Background and Stories

With the retirement of Inferno, I think GW could perhaps reclaim a bit more fiction. The occasional short story and more in depth background articles (not Force X trounces Force Y: heres the model we made). Take the Gerhart refusal: Would actually be interesting but is little more than a vague reference. Politicking in the Templars? Deeper characterisation than "we beat the crap out of stuff?" YES PLEASE! Like others have said, proper stories not the background sales pitch.

Lord of The Rings

Yeah okay, if people insist, its the third major sytem. However, even when I played only 40k I found the WFB bat reps as interesting as 40k ones. This doesn't happen with LOTR. Maybe its because of the different rules system, but whatever it is I find it a month wasted if say, the only bat rep is for LOTR. 40k and WFB are GW's babies, LOTR is, however interesting, not GW's. It can stand by itself, WFB and 40k are reliant on GW to survive and evolve at any level beyond a local group, shouldn't they be nutured accordingly?

[immortal99]

I would love to see more armies showcased belonging to other people - with great painting and conversions and based around an interesting theme. This would also help from a marketing point of veiw as a lot of people will see it (not being the lastest army out) and get interested in it. It would (IMO) be a much better way of improving sales.

Also better painting articles would be lovely! You do not improve without help, advice and most importantly without trying newer and tougher things.

As an example http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/black-templar-...QQcmdZViewItem - 20 years painting experience!?! This goes to show that no matter how long you paint for you won't neccesarily learn new stuff. We need to see better painted models to inspire us to paint better! Not for n00bs like the LoTR section is turning into.

Also please can there be a lot more hobby articles and tactics ones as well? Also expanded - 2 pages is not enough for a decent tactica! And focus on whole armies or a generic choice like tanks or chariots.

[Flame of Udun]

I agree 100% with absolutely everything Delicious Soy said. His words are truth (IMHO)

[FireHawk74]

Hi, I've been getting WD UK since the plastic falcon grav tank came out, which was roughly 212/213. I've seen WD change quite a bit in style, price , etc.... and whilst I like the fact that gamers armies are showcased sometimes and occassionally they do a really good kit review with possible conversions and stuff, the WD has been a bit hit and miss for a while now.

I used to like the mixed up format, the way the sections are divided into games now only goes to highlight to people how little their game gets in the magazine nowadays.

@Delicious Soy....I agree a lot with you've said, especially on the stories front. I remember when every month or so inferno, the citadel journal or the fledgling black library would put a short extract of a story or comic into WD. They introduced gamers to a whole new side of W40k, they used to write everything from gaunts ghosts, or fighter pilots to Kharn the betrayer. Also the index astartes articles were one of the best things GW has written.

Like you said, it feels like the only time we see fiction now is when a new figure/codex is out and even then it feels like they've tried to shoehorn the new figure into the background as the best super dooper soldier ever, but who was strangely never heard of before the new model came out. Couldn't they plan ahead like they used to and release little cryptic bits of info on a new character/army etc.. that built up the background in the months before a big release rather than put it all in one huge lump the month that something is released?

Also I remember when the artwork was amazing in WD, but now all I ever seem to noticed is how much art is being recycled for each article.

It feels like theres little spirit in it anymore since Paul Sawyer left as editor. It seems each new editor only seems to have a crack to little effect, only to pass the buck to a new guy. The hobby element seems to be ebbing away, and the UK WD seems more like a trade catalogue than a hobby magazine, with most articles only being there to highlight new releases and the rest being fillers. I still buy WD to stay current with rules/background etc.. but I generally go to the US Black Gobbo ezine now for everything else, as it seems to be more in the spirit of by hobbyists for hobbyists.

I dont want to be negative and I love the idea behind the WD that the hobby should have a magazine for gamers, and I'll probably always buy WD, but WD UK needs a kick up the **** to get it back on track. They should spend less time on generic articles that only get put on the GW website a week later and more on unique stuff like fiction and art, showcase armies (non heavy metal) , kit building guides, and a slow but steady reduction in LOTR stuff. Finally does it really need endless lists of store names? Couldn't they do that every other month or every few months? Bit lazy to use up space like that....


Cheers, (sorry, I slowly but surely began to rant)

[likeaknifeinthedark]

on the subject of LOTR, I have to agree the quality of the content of some of the stuff has gone down considerably in about the last 8 months or so. we've had bad painting guides, endless army lists and lost of pushing the newest product in our faces. However, there have been lots of good stuff before that, the White Dwarf battle companys campaign, the arnor campaign etc. The thing that stood out the most in the earlier issues was the battle reps though, how they showed you how to make the board and then played a scenario from the film (not that the fact that it was from the film made it good, but the sense of narrative behind it. Personally I really enjoyed the dwarfs vs gobbos report in this white dwarf because they had the whole making the board and theme in it.
One of the other things that seems to be sorely missing, is army show cases where they would have brilliant conversions and sometimes expalin how they'd made them etc. I really miss these two.
Have to say that the store list in the astronomican has to go, and if they perhaps cut down the amount of pages used for ads for direct sales etc. perhaps they might have a somewhat decent letters page and enough room to do a decent job showing the WD staffs latest creations.
Oh and bring back tale of four gamers or somethinga long that vain, with cool themed and converted armies.

[generulpoleaxe]

in regards to painting, you could do two articles in an issue.
first would be how to do tabletop standard and second would be how the 'eavy metal team painted the same miniature.
people would then understand the differance involved in attaining these two standards.

[Mr Tiddles]

Have to say that the store list in the astronomican has to go, and if they perhaps cut down the amount of pages used for ads for direct sales etc. perhaps they might have a somewhat decent letters page and enough room to do a decent job showing the WD staffs latest creations.

Except of course that those pages are (some of) the ones that pay for all the other stuff.
Without a store listing independents won't stock GW product (I believe it is part of the contract some trade stores have with GW that they are in WD every month) and retail stores won't have so many customers. Without the Direct pages no one will buy bitz.
WD's purpose is to advertise GW products so that you go out and buy them, the astronomican bits are just the most explicit example of that.

[Flame of Udun]

Except of course that those pages are (some of) the ones that pay for all the other stuff. Without a store listing independents won't stock GW product (I believe it is part of the contract some trade stores have with GW that they are in WD every month) and retail stores won't have so many customers. Without the Direct pages no one will buy bitz. WD's purpose is to advertise GW products so that you go out and buy them, the astronomican bits are just the most explicit example of that.

First of all WD is not the sole income for GW, they reap a large enough profit fromt the minis themselves. It alone does not supply the cash that allows the sculpters and painters and whatever to run the rest of the business. If there has to be a store listing it should be done for only the country that particular WD is produced in, I mean I dont need need to know where my nearest indie store in greece is, nor would someone from greece need to know where the nearest indie store in tyne and wear is. WD's purpose is to support and encourage the hobby, not to act as a glorified catalogue. You don't need to have all those direct order ads strewn throughout, one or two would suffice and I don't think that the majority of people who do order bits and pieces do so entirely from the back pages of WD, there are the instore order points and the online store where you can find and order all the bits to your hearts content.

[Mr Tiddles]

First of all WD is not the sole income for GW,.

I didn't say it was. Do try and read posts properly before replying, otherwise you may look foolish

If there has to be a store listing it should be done for only the country that particular WD is produced in, I mean I dont need need to know where my nearest indie store in greece is, nor would someone from greece need to know where the nearest indie store in tyne and wear is.

The WD you get to read is the White Dwarf produced *for* both the UK and "Northern Europe" bits of GW's business (don't ask why Greece should be in Northern Europe, it just is, ok). Where it is produced is irrelevant. If and when Greece is a sufficiently large market to warrant it's own magazine doubtless it will get one, until then GW have to make some compromises. BTW, the magazine is actually printed (produced) in Poland, so presumably it should only list Polish shops?

WD's purpose is to support and encourage the hobby, not to act as a glorified catalogue..,.

Oh dear.
Elsewhere on this board you ask what planet I'm from. I can only assume that you are from the planet Extremely Naiive, or maybe just plain old planet Wrong.
WD is a marketing tool. It exists to get you, me and the rest of us suckers to buy toy soldiers. It does this by occasionally throwing you the odd hobby bone or two, but mostly by advertising cool new toys at you.

[Flame of Udun]

Tell me then what you were implying in the following statement then?

Except of course that those pages are (some of) the ones that pay for all the other stuff.

But pehaps I was unclear in my initial response, I meant that GW and WD are not dependent on the Astronomicon and adverts to drive sales which was what you appeared to be implying.

The WD you get to read is the White Dwarf produced *for* both the UK and "Northern Europe" bits of GW's business (don't ask why Greece should be in Northern Europe, it just is, ok). Where it is produced is irrelevant. If and when Greece is a sufficiently large market to warrant it's own magazine doubtless it will get one, until then GW have to make some compromises. BTW, the magazine is actually printed (produced) in Poland, so presumably it should only list Polish shops?

Fair enough but I think you understand the idea I was getting at, no? Surely it would be easier just to remove those pages and include them as a smaller, country focused supplement?

WD is a marketing tool. It exists to get you, me and the rest of us suckers to buy toy soldiers. It does this by occasionally throwing you the odd hobby bone or two, but mostly by advertising cool new toys at you.

Indeed so, but I remember "back in the day" it actually used to contain articles that were not soley focused on that months new releases or the latest army fad. GW does not need to advertise it's "cool new toys" to me or the majority of the other gamers and again it never used to. Since I've been purchasing WD for the last 11 years I have seen the rapid decline in recent years and the level of dumbing down and overt marketing have in my opinion reduced the magazine to a pale imitation of it's former self. Yes, GW does need to advertise but perhaps it should consider advertising in other publications beyond it's own and free up some space in the magazine for articles that turn the focus back to the hobby and promote the diversity and creativity that it used to embody.