Are dwarves jews?

[grumbaki]

I was reading wikipedia, and I came across this:

"According to The History of the Hobbit, Tolkien was now influenced by his own selective reading of medieval texts regarding the Jewish people and their history.[5] The dwarves' characteristics of being dispossessed of their homeland (the Lonely Mountain, their ancestral home, is the goal the exiled Dwarves seek to reclaim), and living among other groups whilst retaining their own culture are all derived from the medieval image of Jews,[5][6] whilst their warlike nature stems from accounts in the Hebrew Bible.[5] Medieval views of Jews also saw them as having a propensity for making well-crafted and beautiful things,[5] a trait shared with Norse dwarves.[4]...The Dwarven calendar invented for The Hobbit reflects the Jewish calendar in beginning in late autumn.[5] The dwarves taking Bilbo out of his complacent existence has been seen as an eloquent metaphor for the "impoverishment of Western society without Jews."[6]"

I've seen that some people here are pretty well read in regard to Tolkien and his works. Does this strike any of you as likely? I had personally seen the connection before, but I never thought that it was something that was conscious. Also, please no anti-semitism. I'd hate to see this thread closed.

[yabbadabba]

First I have ever seen of this mate. I'll try and look into it.

[Maximilian]

Many Dwarves, such as those of the Lonely Mountain, having to leave their homeland does, I suppose, make the Dwarves in some way similar to Jews. However, there are plenty of other peoples, both in reality and fantasy, who have also had to do this. I can’t at the moment see any particular similarities between how exactly Dwarves leave or are driven from their homeland and the experience of Jews.

I’ve always thought that Tolkienian Dwarves’ main inspiration is certainly the Dwarfs of Germanic myths, but they surely do have other inspirations and it sounds credible to me that accounts of people who made beautiful things influenced their development.

Due to my near total ignorance of calendars, I’m not in the best position to comment in the similarity between the Dwarf and Jewish calendar ... but, it seems to me possible that Tolkien could have been influenced by the Jewish calendar without selecting it deliberately to make any links between Dwarfs and Jews and Tolkien did spend time time devising several different calendars, so it wouldn’t be that surprising if one of them resembled the Jewish calendar in some way.

To be entirely honest, my initial reaction to the idea that the Dwarves meeting Bilbo parallels Jews’ contributions to Western society is that it’s highly unlikely, though I suppose it’s not impossible that Tolkien wished the Dwarves’ skill to parallel that mentioned in medieval accounts of Jews. To be honest, I’m really surprised by this idea, but it is an interesting suggestion at the least.

My sum total of Tolkien in connection with Jews before reading this came from something in my book of Tolkien’s letters: a letter in which Tolkien replied to a request (if I remember rightly) from a German publisher wanting to publish the Hobbit in the Nazi period. Tolkien was asked to prove he was a ‘pure Aryan’ or something similarly ridiculous and I’m sure he replied that he was sad that he had no knowledge of having any Jewish ancestors and referred to the the Jews as ‘that most gifted race’ (I’d better try to find this), which suggests not only that Tolkien was not tainted by anti-Semitism but also that he regarded Jews as gifted, which maybe support the idea that that he was influenced by the idea of Jews being great craftsmen like his Dwarves and Norse Dwarfs.

[Condottiere]

The possibility exists, though which tradition Tolkien would have chosen, assuming he consciously modeled the Dwarven race on the Jews, seems a little vague. Certainly not Shakespeare nor other Renaissance and Baroque influences.

[Verm1s]

Yup. Tolkien made the comparison in a 1965 BBC interview (according to John D. Rateliff: your first five wiki points are also mentioned by him) and in Letters #229.

[Festus]

Hi

Even the Language of the Dwarves, Khuzdul, is closely modelled on the Hebrew language as it is a language of Radicals as well (linguistic radicals, not political ones, mind).
So you are certainly right in your assessment.

Greetings
Festus

[Col. Tartleton]

Technically the Noldor are Norse Dwarves. The Deep Elves actually seem to be more in line with those themes. The term Dwarf derives from a word that translates better as Dark Elf then stunty. Dark Elf being that they have more death culture (black hair, unhealthy pallor, live beneath the earth etc) whereas the light elves of Alfheim are radiant with vitality and light and live above the earth.

Tolkiens Dwarves aren't true Norse Dwarves, but more like the Gnomes they merged with in popular culture. Beings of earth bearded, short, but with the craftsmanship of the Dwarves.

I don't think his dwarves are deliberately Jews, but they are a similar sort of people thematically. He leaves religion out of the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit by and large. But there are enough similarities to make me wonder. He was certainly not anti semetic so it's all quite possible he incorporated Jews as his unbreakable race (since Jews have survived a tumultuous history its only fitting) of dwarves. Stubborn, set in their ways, orthodox. I don't have trouble seeing it, but that opens up the story to more interpretation then was needed.

Tolkien I think was writing what it says. A really big complex epic saga worthy of any Norse bard. It had a lot of themes within it, but I don't think it was an analogy to the real world as much as a reflection on adapting the Saga into Fantasy to create a modern day Beowulf. Religion and Race disputes aren't in the story. If they were there'd be more focus on the orks as dimensional characters instead of fodder.

Just my Opinion of course.

[tezdal]

If dwarves are Jews, Lonely Mountain is Israel, what does that make Smaug?

[TitusAndronicus]

Phaeroh? your message is to short...

[Dragon Prince of Caledor]

lol I think Tolkien would be mortified if he was reading this. Not because any of the above is untrue in its essence but that one to one translations do not work for Tolkien as far as his universe is concerned relative to ours....
Take it easy

[Verm1s]

... Despite the fact that he mentioned the connection himself?

[metro_gnome]

If dwarves are Jews, Lonely Mountain is Israel, what does that make Smaug?

well no... Moria would be Israel...
The Lonely Mountain would be the last place they were thrown out of (Venice/Spain/Eastern Europe etc.)...
Smaug would be the last one who threw them out...

[yabbadabba]

If dwarves are Jews, Lonely Mountain is Israel, what does that make Smaug?

A dead dragon.

[Condottiere]

Actually, the longed for land would be Moria. It has too much history to be otherwise.

[Malorian]

I'm not big into LotR but I find this comparision very interesting, even more so because Tolkien himself "made the comparison in a 1965 BBC interview".

Finally I have some LotR trivia I can hold above the LotR junkies

[static grass]

wow, I am simply amazed that I never made the connection before now.

Actually, the longed for land would be Moria. It has too much history to be otherwise.

I think this is right. The lonely mountain would be then a metaphor for the jewish community living in europe (and elsewhere). Presumably smaug fits in nicely as a metaphor for their treatement during the middle ages killed/driven off/robbed.

Ofcourse it is possible to over interpret a metaphor.

[The Red Scourge]

Also forgotten to mention, is that dwarves are stingy and moneygrubbing (and often master jewellers) and like to keep themselves isolated from others, which fits perfectly with the stereotype on jews that has been portrayed and abused for ages.

[Arnizipal]

Careful with the stereotypes please. Wouldn't want this thread to end up in P&R...

Arnizipal,

++ The Warseer Moderation Team ++

[jlmb_123]

I think the point there is to make comparisons between stereotypes, rather than re-enforce them.

However, Tolkien's Dwarves aren't stingy - they're very nice people, Warhammer Dwarves are stingy. They don't rob Smaug because they have their <insert various adverbs> eyes on somebody else's property, they're reclaiming their own inheritance from a greedy dragon.

I think the problem with comparing history with the books is that you can push the metaphors too much - although there are many analogies in LotR, it's important to remember that first and foremost it's a fantasy story. Animal Farm it ain't.

[Condottiere]

I suspect that Sauron's Rings bring riches to the Dwarf Lords, while or through playing on those stereotypes.