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  1. #1
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    Reference on Community Brainstorming.

    Over the last few months I have worked together with interested parties on another internet community trying to come to terms with what we "daemon players" would like to see in a New DoC book for 8th Ed.

    We are no where near a complete revision of the current book, but we have gotten quite far with narrowing down alot of details and general aspects/changes.

    We have tried to be balanced. Tried to resist the "they're Daemons!" mentality. Still, this has so far been conducted exclusively by "Daemon-players" and thus - if you feel that you have the time and interest - I post the current status of our compiled findings here on Warseer so that all you "Daemon-haters" will have a chance at a say as well.

    Any constructive input is much appreciated. When I first joined here on Warseer I immidiately started a Thread on this very same subject, but that was brainstorming from scratch whereas what you see *below* is the result of many months of discussion/argument between dozens of unrelated players.

    ----------------

    CORE:
    Bloodletters 13pts without killing blow
    Suggested Options:
    Hellblades +1pts/per model: Killing blow
    Aura of Khorne +2pts/per model: heavy armor and MR2
    Armour of Khorne +6pts/model: 3+ AS
    Fury of Khorne +2pts/per model: Devastating charge special rule

    Daemonettes 10 pts/model (11 pts/model?)
    Soporific Musk +1pts/ per model: same effect as with fiends
    Aura of Slaanesh +2pts/ per model: Opponent gets -1 to Ld when in base contact with daemonettes
    Furious +1pts/ per model: Fight in extra ranks
    Other Alternatives:
    - Remove Armour Piercing, add S4.

    Plaguebearers 12pts
    Cloud of flies +2pts per model: Opponent gets -1 to hit in melee.
    Blessing of Plaguefather +2pts per model: Immune to killing blow (not heroic killing blow) and get ward saves against instant killing stat tests.
    Stream of corruption +2pts per model: Instead of normal attacks each Plaguebearer could make one automatic S3 hit on opponents.

    Horrors 8 pts/model
    Alternative: re-write to accomodate 8th Ed Magic Phase.
    - Cast "AutoSpells" like shooting (4 Levels for Size as usual)?
    - Generate Power Dice?
    - Add Augments to units within 6"?
    - Reintroduce Blue and Pink Horrors?

    Blue Horror 6 pts/model
    Could Channel once for each Level of Size, make Channeling easier, or have a constant bonus to the Power Pool instead of Spells from the Tzeentch Lore - etcetera.?

    Furies
    - Leadership increased to 5.

    SPECIAL:

    Flesh hounds
    Fury of Khorne +3pts/per model: Devastating charge special rule
    Striders +2pts/per model: Strider rule
    Hunters +4pts/per model: Rerolls to hit and wound against one enemy unit chosen in the beginning of the battle.

    Screamers
    T4 (or +1 Wound!) or point-drop by 10 points.
    Furious Charge
    Protection of Tzeentch 3pts per model: MR2
    Eaters of magic 5pts per model: Every wizard within 6" of the screamers needs 1 more to cast spells.

    Nurglings *no changes*

    Seekers 20pts
    24pts with 3 attacks.
    Soporific Musk +2pts/ per model: same effect as with fiends
    Aura of Slaanesh +3pts/ per model: Opponent gets -1 to Ld when in base contact with daemonettes
    Furious +2pts/ per model: Furious charge special rule.

    RARE

    Fiends
    Scorpion Tail: 5 points/model = +1 S3 Poison Attack
    or
    Full-o'Acid: 10 points/model (Single Use: Each Fiend has One S7 Armour Peircing Autowounding Attack, D3 wounds).

    BloodCrushers
    Armor of Khorne +10pts/per model: 2+ armor and MR2 (5 pts/model?)
    Fury of Khorne +5pts/per model: Devastating charge special rule
    Bloodcrazy +5pts/per model: Frenzy special rule

    Flamers
    - No Changes /or Range 12" for Shooting with Quick To Fire Rule?

    Beasts of nurgle
    Add Cloud of Flies: gives opponent a -1 to hit penalty.
    Playful +20 per model: Unit gains Stupid and stubborn special rules
    Rotten to the core +10pts per model: Unit gains +3 regeneration
    Trained monster +10 per model: You can reroll your random attacks for each model.

    HEROES

    HoK - no change
    - Add Scythes to Bloodchariot
    HoT - no change
    - Burning Chariot: 4+ ward? Flaming Attacks? "Featherweight Craft" Special Rule = FlyMove 20" (still 10 for Charge!).
    HoS - +1 Attack/T or S - depending on how Daemonettes are fixed.(?)
    HoN - no change

    LORDS

    Daemon Prince
    - Make into "super-herald" ('Exalted Daemon') at ~225 points base-cost? Essentially a Lord-choice bridging the gap between Heralds and Lords, able to join units and have mounts etcetera (Monstous Infantry Type?)
    and/or
    - Modify Current DP;
    - Additional Wound? Free Selection of "Lord Gifts"? Increase Gift Allowance? Statchanges or Special Rules from Marks (Locus?)? Wider range of magic Level? Re-write statline?
    *Anything goes about the DP, lots of creativity needed here.
    Bloodthirster
    - 6 wounds.
    - Increase Gift Allowance (150-200)?
    - Locus of Khorne
    Lord of Change
    - 6 wounds.
    - Decrease cost by 25/50
    - Increase Gift Allowance?
    - Locus of Tzeentch.
    GreatUncleanOne
    - Decrease Cost by 25/50 points.
    - Increase Gift allowance?
    - Locus of Nurgle
    - Movement 4 (but increase Fighting-Stats).
    Keeper of Secrets
    - 6 wounds.
    - Increase Gift allowance?

    THE MAGIC PHASE:
    Horrors requires revision or drastic(boring) pointdrop.
    - Could; Generate Own Power Dice, Channel general Dice much easier, auto-cast spells with Power Level-To-Dispel (abuse-warning!), augment nearby Troops/Friendly Wizards?
    *The 3 Lores of Daemonic Magic will certainly be adjusted to 8th Ed with a new DoC-book, thus it is superfluous for us to put effort into this can of worms.
    - Herald of Slaanesh/Nurgle allowed to purchase LvL 2. Herald of Tzeentch allowed LvL 3. Daemon Prince allowed LvL 3.

    DAEMONIC GIFTS:
    - Increase number of Gifts.
    - ~20 Gifts (10 to 100 points cost) unlocked by each respective Mark.
    - ~30 Gifts in the Unmarked Section.
    * Heralds/Lords may choose freely in the Unmarked Section, and in the section unlocked by their Mark. Heralds still only get 50 pts/Gifts,
    Further Amendments/Suggestions:
    - Master of Sorcery 50 points?
    - Siren Song - 35 points? (25 for a mono-slaanesh list?)
    - Dark Insanity 50 points?
    - AwesomeStrength - Point-reduction or "work with Monster Stomp"-rule.
    - Spirit Swallower - "Work with Monster Stomp"-rule?
    - Additions
    (Unmarked) Chaos Disruption 50 points = -1 to shoot at daemon. Warmachines may-not-fire on 4+.
    (Unmarked) Radiance of Dark Glory 20points = Daemon and unit he is with lose 1 less wound to instability.
    (Slaanesh) Luring Fumes 25 Enemy models in contact halve their WS and I.
    PLAGUESWORD (Nurgle only) - 50pts
    Roll a D6 for any model wounded by this weapon after all saves have been taken. On a 4+ it loses all remaining wounds.
    MAGIC-HATER (Khorne only) - 20pts
    Any spells (friend or foe) cast by wizards within 6" of this model or targeted at units within 6" of this model will suffer a miscast on any casting roll that includes a double 1.

    DAEMONIC ICONS:
    * The idea is to go from 2 to 4 Icons per Mark, in the section beneath there are sometimes more than 4 alternatives for the sake of evaluation.

    Khorne:
    1). May always march - 15pts
    2). Extra D6" to first charge - 25pts
    3). Add D3 Dispel Dice to Enemy Magic Phase. - 25 points.
    3). Magic Resistance 3 - 25pts?
    4). +1 WS - 35pts
    5). Unit is Immune to All Magic - 50 pts.?
    6). "Unit Locus gives PermaHatred" - 75 points


    Slaanesh:
    1). Stubborn for first break test - 25pts
    2). Only hold as reaction - 25pts
    3). The unit gains the benefits of the Soporific Musk gift - 25pts
    4). The unit gains the Swiftstride rule - 35pts
    5). Enemy in B2B roll 3d6 for Fear-check discarding lowest (cumulative with Phantasmagoria). - 35 pts

    Nurgle:
    1). Poisoned wounds count double resolution - 25pts
    2). Re-roll failed to wounds - 25pts
    3). Shooting gets -1 to hit - 35pts
    4). All enemy units in contact with the unit gain ASL - 50pts
    5). Unit regains one Wound for Every 3 PoisonWounds caused - 35 points.

    Tzeentch:
    1). +1 ToCast, 15 points.
    2). Once per Friendly magic phase, 2d6 S3 Flaming Hits in CC.
    3). "Vortex Standard" - 50 points, 1 Extra Power/Dispel Dice.
    4). "Unit Channels on 4+" - 35 points.
    5). "Unit Ignores Miscasts" - 15 points.

    BSB Icons:
    1). Great Standard of Sundering - 50pts
    2). Great Icon of Despair - 75pts
    3). Standard of Chaos Glory - 100pts
    4). Banner of Hellfire ~100pts: original Bound Spell function obsolete.
    Suggestions:
    - +2d6 To Combat Resolution 100pts (Overpowered?)
    - 2D6 S6 Flaming CC-hits Every Friendly Magic Phase? (Overpowered?)

    * Core Choices Icon-allowance 50 points. Special/Rare on 75? Troops have access to 'BSB-Icons' if they are within their price-range.

    ADDITIONAL UNITS:
    - Changebringers? (Flamers on Discs doesn't seem to add much though..)
    - PleasureSeekers? (Danger of just duplicating Fiends.. Would be an interesting Mount-option for HoS and "Exalted Daemon of Slaanesh" though!)
    - Plagueriders? - PlagueToads + Riders have been released from FW, it seems only natural to include them to the Nurgle Chapter in a new DoC Book.*
    FW Experimental Rules on Plaguetoads; Suggestions are Locus of Nurgle and inceased cost by 10 points.?

    *Optimally, each of the Four Marks should get at least 1 or 2 more "complimentary" units, while "duplication" issues might occur on a mark-to-mark basis, this would increase the value of the Mono-God playing style.

    Brainstorming on New Units:
    "Juggernauts of Khorne" ('Heavier alternative to FleshHounds')
    "Eye Of Tzeentch" ('Dungeons&Dragons-inspired Beholder magic-hub type Rare/Special Choice Monster?)
    - Core-troop variants? Either 'instead' of suggested upgrades or in addition to these. (i.e. "ascendants" of Bloodletters (T4, AoK - 24 Points/model), Daemonettes (T4, S5 20 points/model), Plaguebearers (+1 S & T 16 points/model), Horrors (Pink and Blue Horrors?)
    - Chariots as Rare or Special Choice in Addition to Hero-Mounts?
    Last edited by DaemonReign; 18-03-2011 at 03:18.

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