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Thread: A noob starting Fantasy needs some help

  1. #1
    Librarian MikeyB's Avatar
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    A noob starting Fantasy needs some help

    Right here is my problem.

    I'd like to start an Army, namely High Elves, but my mates are saying they wont play me because they think they're broken as all hell.

    Now obviously I'd like to play the army of my choice but i also don't want to play a broken army.

    Are they right? If not what can i say to convince them they're wrong?

    Especially vehement about it is a Dark Elf player. He says my elite troops are way better than his. i dont have enough knowledge about it to argue back really.

    Help?
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  2. #2
    Commander bluemage's Avatar
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    Re: A noob starting Fantasy needs some help

    High elves aren't remotely broken in 8th. Its just that they typically get to reroll their missed attacks in every round of combat and the dark elf player sounds jelous. Ask them to explain why they think a 15 point t3 5+ save model is broken.

    Start them anyways and offer to tone down your list if its overpowered. But really your mates out to go to a tournament, where they'll discover what a broken army really is.
    My goal for the year is to get another 100 models painted.
    So far I haven't touched a brush.

  3. #3
    Chapter Master Malorian's Avatar
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    Re: A noob starting Fantasy needs some help

    Play a proxy game with him.

    He can have a bunch of 'broken' swordmasters and you can have a bunch of repeater crossbowmen.

    Actually, you might not need to play that one out as I think the result is obvious...
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  4. #4
    Brother Sergeant
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    Re: A noob starting Fantasy needs some help

    MikeyB. Your friend is a tool. HElves are not broken; the only reason anyone could reasonably object to Helves is Teclis, and frankly I find him pretty easy to take him out.

    I think, besides a few legitimate instances, that the term "broken" gets used when someone is scared to play an army or has experienced challenges against certain armies. When I first started playing Empire, I got my butt kicked by almost everyone...and through that experience I learned my army. That doesnt mean everyone I played had a broken army.

    Tell your friend hes being a poor Dark Elf general if hes afraid of a bunch of HElves!

  5. #5
    Chaplain TheWarmaster's Avatar
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    Re: A noob starting Fantasy needs some help

    Tell him to take lots of str4+ shooting and ask him again. I think DE have repeater crossbows and repeater bolt throwers?

  6. #6
    Chaplain
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    Re: A noob starting Fantasy needs some help

    the high elves are not broken in any way, there are lots of ways to beat them.

    tell your friends that with the new rules even if your swordmasters kill a guy with each attack they have (21 with most units of 7x3) that their hordes will still be able to wipe them out. or ask to play a proxy as stated above, where you DE friend gets some elite and you get lowly core missile troops.

    as long as you dont play teclis in friendly games you shouldnt have a problem, if you do your friends are just scared of playing a different army or are exxagerating whatever rumour they hear online
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    ]Unfortunately in GW games there seems to be a rift between those who want competition and those who want a laid back game. While tournament players are generally happy to let people play however they want, it is the fluff side that seems to feel they need to tell others how they have to enjoy the game.
    Cheers, Gary

  7. #7
    Chapter Master Okuto's Avatar
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    Re: A noob starting Fantasy needs some help

    as long as you dont play magic heavy....my green tide orcs got stomped yesterday by massed magic....though then again I only took two caddies so I wasn't do well off magic defense wise.

    It was very embarrassing for my 100 orc boy mob(shamelessy stole the idea from Malorian except didn't want to do it with weedy gobbos) to get blasted to death and then roll crap to get them run down by seaguard......easy pickings I thought
    Hydra Dominatus!

  8. #8
    Chapter Master Knifeparty's Avatar
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    Re: A noob starting Fantasy needs some help

    High Elves are a very good army this edition. It mostly has to do with their ASF and the combination of life magic. Have you ever seen toughness 7 regenerating sword masters? I have, they make even Chaos Chosen cry. Tears for Isha!

    Teclis is almost an auto-win against certain opponents who don't know how to deal with him. Teclis is broken, DO NOT TAKE HIM IF YOU WANT FRIENDS!

    High elves used to be an easy match up for DE, but now DE actually have to think about what they are doing instead of just going to town. Take a well rounded list and I don't see why your DE friend would have a problem.

    That being said, I just started a HE army. I got me 40 sea guard, 30 Sword masters, a mage, 20 elyrion reavers and 2 Gryphons for $150, sweet deal!

  9. #9
    Librarian MikeyB's Avatar
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    Re: A noob starting Fantasy needs some help

    Cheers guys I dunno how convinced they are but we'll proxy them and see
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    If something is bothering you, just shoot it until it is rendered down into its component atoms.

  10. #10
    Brother Sergeant
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    Re: A noob starting Fantasy needs some help

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyB View Post
    Cheers guys I dunno how convinced they are but we'll proxy them and see
    Good Luck, MikeyB...let us know how it goes! (and don't forge to check out the HE tactics threads over on the tactics board)

  11. #11
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    Re: A noob starting Fantasy needs some help

    For having lost all my 8th games to date, I truly doubt they are broken. That said, I refuse to play special characters so maybe that's why...

  12. #12
    Chapter Master Jind_Singh's Avatar
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    Re: A noob starting Fantasy needs some help

    Pff -sadly what you need here is a new friend that isn't a complete tool! Dark Elves have been a broken army since 7th ed, and 8th hasn't softened them up ONE bit!

    1) Cheap as dirt repeater crossbows - one of the most abused core units in the game
    2) War Hydra - the most broken monster in the game as it's stupidly cheap for what it does.
    3) Dark Elf magic - they can whip up a STORM of magic dice and smash people down
    4) Dark Elf magic items - some of them are just plain silly

    And so on, and so forth.

    Besides, playing Dark Elves vs High Elves is one of the most classic line ups in Warhammer Fantasy Battle! As cool as playing Dwarf vs Orcs & Goblins, Empire vs Orcs & Goblins, Warriors of Chaos vs Empire, etc, as they are the fights at the center of Warhammer lore!

    And as a point of fact - High Elves ARE NOT BROKEN! My Greenskins give them BIG trouble every time we clash and I don't have ASF with re-roll to hit in combat! (well I kinda do but I need spells to make it happen).

    High Elves are just fine - tell your 'friend' that if he doesn't want to play interesting and challenging armies he can BUY YOU some models for another army - as you get a great deal by buying the starter set and trading the Skaven models for more High Elves!

    20 Sea Guard
    20 Sword Masters
    10 Reavers
    2 Griffins (ok so these might not get used much but look great!)
    2 Wizards (Again you may only use one)

    For what, $120 odd dollars? Telling me you get that much in a single battalion box?

    And then adding that single battalion box means you got your self a GREAT army for dirt cheap (well by Warhammer standards, I play horde armies and $200 doesn't even get me started!).

    Tell your friend to grow up, relax, and learn to have fun. While he's reeling from this go find more open minded gamers!
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  13. #13
    Brother Sergeant
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    Re: A noob starting Fantasy needs some help

    I am a budding Dark Elf player, and its not uncommon for me to get my ass handed to me by anyone I play against. Learning your army is the biggest obstacle it seems with D.Elves. Sure we Druchii have loads of powerful units but if you can't deploy them, use them effectively or your chopped liver.

    So your friend has nothing to complain about as far as High Elves are concerned, his generalship is likely at fault for his losses or fear of High Elves.

  14. #14
    Librarian MikeyB's Avatar
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    Re: A noob starting Fantasy needs some help

    I appreciate the advice guys but can we stop insulting my friends please?

    Ok so we ran the numbers and he's agreed they may not be as bad as first thought.

    SO!

    Here's your next challenge:

    I have an Isle of Blood and a Helf battalion
    You have 1500 points (or 1000 if 1500 is to easy ) to make an army that can stand a chance against Delfs, Skaven and Tomb Kings.

    Go!
    Last edited by MikeyB; 23-03-2011 at 20:11. Reason: melling spisstakes
    Quote Originally Posted by Overlord Krycis View Post
    You, good sir, are responsible for my Keyboard no longer working...coffee does not play nicely with electronics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Starchild View Post
    If something is bothering you, just shoot it until it is rendered down into its component atoms.

  15. #15
    Librarian rob_appo's Avatar
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    Re: A noob starting Fantasy needs some help

    As a dark elf player i dont think you can complain about high elves to much when for 320 points we can get 60 shots that you can combine with shadow magic that would make a real mess of most lightly armourd high points cost high elf things.

  16. #16
    Chapter Master Malorian's Avatar
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    Re: A noob starting Fantasy needs some help

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyB View Post
    I appreciate the advice guys but can we stop insulting my friends please?

    Ok so we ran the numebers and he's agreed they may not be as bad as first thought.

    SO!

    Here's your next challenge:

    I have an Isle of Blood and a Helf battalion
    You have 1500 points (or 1000 if 1500 is to easy ) to make an army that can stand a chance against Delfs, Skaven and Tomb Kings.

    Go!
    Hurray! Vindication!


    Just a note, you might want to start with a 'weak' list first and then go from there.

    Wouldn't look right to show how HE aren't broken and then crush him in your first game


    Edit: So at this point I would make your own list and then just come back to us if you are having trouble.
    Last edited by Malorian; 23-03-2011 at 20:10.
    The only cure known for the dreaded illnes of Ruleslawyeritus is a swift dosage of punchinthefaceicilin. -Tapok
    The 7 Habits of Effective Gamers: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232493
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  17. #17
    Brother Sergeant
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    Re: A noob starting Fantasy needs some help

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyB View Post
    I appreciate the advice guys but can we stop insulting my friends please?

    Ok so we ran the numbers and he's agreed they may not be as bad as first thought.

    SO!

    Here's your next challenge:

    I have an Isle of Blood and a Helf battalion
    You have 1500 points (or 1000 if 1500 is to easy ) to make an army that can stand a chance against Delfs, Skaven and Tomb Kings.

    Go!
    MikeyB, no worries! Good-natured trash talking is part of the fun of the game, but no serious insults to your friends were intended....and props for sticking up for your buds!

    Laughing at yourself is a skill I would encourage in every gamer.

  18. #18
    Librarian MikeyB's Avatar
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    Re: A noob starting Fantasy needs some help

    Np Jimmy just they do read Warseer as well ^_^

    Is a block of 40 sea guard a dumb idea?
    Quote Originally Posted by Overlord Krycis View Post
    You, good sir, are responsible for my Keyboard no longer working...coffee does not play nicely with electronics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Starchild View Post
    If something is bothering you, just shoot it until it is rendered down into its component atoms.

  19. #19
    Chapter Master Malorian's Avatar
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    Re: A noob starting Fantasy needs some help

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyB View Post
    Np Jimmy just they do read Warseer as well ^_^

    Is a block of 40 sea guard a dumb idea?
    Nope. In fact I think they would be better at 50

    You are putting them in horde formation right?
    The only cure known for the dreaded illnes of Ruleslawyeritus is a swift dosage of punchinthefaceicilin. -Tapok
    The 7 Habits of Effective Gamers: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232493
    The ONLY reason i joined this forum was to join Malorians arenas. - teafloy_the_damned
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  20. #20
    Librarian MikeyB's Avatar
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    Re: A noob starting Fantasy needs some help

    Yeah that's the plan I can do 50 stick a mage in there with them? Or leave him out on his own?

    I figure against skaven and dark elves he'd end up as a pin cushion out on his own :S

    But then naughty miscasts and it could go very wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by Overlord Krycis View Post
    You, good sir, are responsible for my Keyboard no longer working...coffee does not play nicely with electronics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Starchild View Post
    If something is bothering you, just shoot it until it is rendered down into its component atoms.

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