Plants, Cloud, Tael and Quests.... (Latching on to the WHQ revival)

[Modhail]

To be honest, when painting individual models, I don't strictly keep recipes. Individual models are my "fun time" painting wise, I generally just tend to freewheel and eyeball it.
And where I mainly use unmixed colours in production line painting for speed and consistency, for individual model I mix my little brains out...
I start with a basecoat, add a little bit of this for the following few stages, a little bit of that next. And I tweak colour and shade with washes as I go along.

Judging by what paints are on the painting table, for this leather I used:
-Vallejo Mahogany Brown (846)
-Vallejo German Camouflage Orange Ochre (824)
-Vallejo Yellow Ochre (913)
and all 3 of GW's previous brown washes; Devlan Mud, Ogryn Flesh and Gryphonne Sepia, somewhere along the way...

Didn't get much done this weekend, I helped a mate pack for an upcoming move this weekend. I did glue some skeletons together though. They'll be part of the Generic Dungeon (but useable for WHQ as well), and serve as a change of pace from the Quest mini's, as and when needed.
I have to say, the new Vampire Counts skelly kit is quite nice! (Even though I really miss the option for bows. But apparently VC's don't get skeleton archers anymore?)

[Daniel36]

There is a reasonable ongoing sales potential though, through the monster tables. But that would mean GW would have to commit to it to a near core game degree. Something that they simply won't do anymore, sadly.

That's the thing though... They already commit to it. It's SO easy for them to tie new army releases to Warhammer Quest.

New army released! Chaos Warriors!
And for those people not interested in starting a Chaos Warriors army, here are rules for using those AAAAWESOME new Chaos Ogre and Dragon Ogre models in your Warhammer Quest game.

All they need to do is come up with some stats for them, release those in the White Dwarf, it will give Quest players a reason to buy a White Dwarf AND models for an army they are not planning on playing Warhammer Fantasy with. How is that not a win-win situation for GW?

It still baffles me.

But anyways, you are not interested in my ramblings on GW marketing strategy fails. Nice job on finding that pristine set. Not continue on your merry way painting them up!

[Daemonslave]

I completely agree with Daniel36 here, plus if they sell it as a stand alone game as well (like it is now - additional monsters/tables are optional extras) then you also have an intoduction method from more mainstream shops such as W H Smiths etc (obviously have loads of adverts inside saying how wonderful GW is, etc).

Bit of a no-brainer to me, anyway

[Modhail]

Sad thing is, I agree as well...

What I was trying to articulate is the fact that GW these days will only commit to two types of releases: "Core Games"; high figure count games with ongoing support and releases, and "Black Boxes"; Limited edition one-offs, designed to be self contained, supposedly complete, with any chance or room of future expansions/additions carefully sanitized away (Space Hulk and Dreadfleet, so far).
The latter essentially throwaway cashgrabs that require no thought after sales, to be cynical.
(True, there's also the "Specialist Games", but I'm afraid we can all see that's just a "let it bleed out, hope it dies" form of "support"... No new releases, no attention.)

Within that frame, WHQ falls outside of both categories, by not having (in the eyes of GW, not mine!!!) potential to be a money-turning core game with ongoing releases and expansions, and at the same time being very open-ended and expansion friendly, thus exceeding the "Black Box" boundaries...
So based on that frame of reference, I think GW, in their eyes, feel they must choose between either doing it right and committing full on (and thus likely angering the beancounters/shareholders) or turning WHQ into a nailed-shut limited edition one-off, crippling the game by doing so and disappointing a lot of fans/ruining the memory and legacy of an excellent game...
Hence my reluctant pessimism. GW seems to be adamant against adding a third core game or going beyond "Black Box" boundaries.

I however, maintain the hope that GW comes to their senses and start op up their intermediary and skirmish lines of games again. And keep them properly supported in the long run. (Not holding my breath though, and sad about it...)
In an ideal situation, for WHQ, they would follow the format of releasing a themed WHQ expansion set with every armybook, containing and/or expanding that race's rules, themed dungeon boards and an adventure. Oddly, buying a battalion box would give you all the miniatures you need for that adventure?
Sigh, a man can dream....

[S_A_T_S]

I think if you asked anyone who works for GW they will tell you LotR is the third core game [wait for laughter to die down] but seriously, a black box release of WHQ could still be good AS LONG AS they keep in all the RPG rules and battle tables to allow development beyond the basic 'board game'. My home set is just put together as a board game, with a couple of extra event cards from the expansions and 1-2 White Dwarf board sections added in (hopefully some of Tael's home made sections for extra interest as well) which I use to play with my wife and some members of her family as a one-off board game every so often. When I wanna play a proper game, it's a 30 minute drive to a friends home once or twice a month where we can use his ridiculously large collection of miniatures.

The simple board game is great, with plenty of variety due to the 6 objective rooms, so could be a one off, but all they need is that set of Monster tables and the leveling rules, combined with some heavy sales hints about how the GW model range will allow you to get models to further expand the game, and that is an investment the scale of Space Hulk, but with a reasonable trickle of additional sales over the years, probably catching a few new people into WFB as they find they have enough different orcs to make a small army. After all, that's basically how WFB was created in the first place - people had too many D&D models to know what to do with, so Steve Jackson commishions Rick Priestly to make a game that uses them all...

[Modhail]

True, but truth be told, several GW staff I know can't make that claim without a suppressed snigger...

Sounds like we're all in agreement: GW needs a "gateway drug" to pull in Johnny Public and WHQ would be ideal! Now we just need to convince GW of that wisdom.


No news on the miniatures front from me, I'm afraid... Sinusitis is cramping my painting style. :cries:

[Modhail]

I made some more progress on the painting side.
The Orcs got their leathers finished, currently waiting for the wash to dry on the skulls:

So now it's just: finish the skulls, the fletchings of the arrows and the two shields. Then I can paint the base edges and call them done. Oh, and see if I can put some nice checker patterns on somewhere...

I'm still pondering if I'll put some gore on their blades. I did it for the Skaven, but somehow I'm not sure it will suit these Orcs.
What do you think?

[Modhail]

Well, had a lost few moments before dinner, so I quickly finished those Orcs.
I still couldn't decide to add gore or not, and someone suggested making them rusty instead. Because these are the missus' miniatures, I let her have the final say.
She wanted the swords rusty.

Here they are:



(Just a quick snap in the fading daylight...)

The rust was somewhat of an experiment. I may tweak it a bit tomorrow, after I have a fresh look at it. (I've been staring at it too much to be objective at the moment. I've got a feeling it's a bit mismatched with the rest of their gear, which seems fairly well-maintained. But like I said, I need to take some distance before I decide.)

[Shas'El Tael]

Thanks for the leather "recipe" - shall try that out on a new model soon.

Loving the old school orcs - one thought on the Rust is less is more - do some light application of Vermin Brown into areas moisture and grime would settle, then stipple that ever so lightly with Orange - almost able to count the dots, and you'll have a convincing but economic rust effect.

- Seb

[Littlemonk]

In regard to GW and Joe Public, i'll admit that i wouldn't (and don't) play WHFB, Mordheim, or any other battle game. I play WHQ, Dungeonquest, Talisman, and other "boardgames" and have no interest in anything that involves scenery, etc. And i'm not interested in Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay either. I like a light roleplay, if even that, and WHQ suits me just fine.

With that said, i own quite a few "armies" since i have the entire WHQ Roleplay Book and then some. So, yes, WHQ would be GW's answer to getting Joe Public to purchase their miniatures. (However, i purchased all my minis from eBay and private collectors since i like pre-2000 GW minis and don't wish to give them my money)

[Modhail]

Littlemonk, I can only applaud you for your taste in games and miniatures!

And I have to once more agree, WHQ does have selling potential. If only GW would see it...

Oh, and I did a bit more painting:


(Light was wonky today, so you get one pic from the shade and one without bright sun, but with flash.... The actual colour of the spiders is somewhere between the two pics....)

These are just the first 6 of the batch. Two of the spiders are inspired by page 14 of the Roleplay book, did you spot them?
I think the second batch will be a mix of darker brown and "black widow" black with red markings.
Not sure if they're next up on the table though, I found I kinda like switching the figures up when painting.

[S_A_T_S]

Nice spiders! I actually saw one at work today that looked almost identical, hanging at child-head height and with a body about as big as my thumb, which for the UK is pretty big! Urgh, even looking at them, I immediatly imagine my Bretonnian Knight stamping them to death with her metal boots...

[Modhail]

I actually rather like spiders...
But despite this, when researching to paint them, even I felt a bit crawly after several google image search pages full of little beady-eyed eightlegs staring back at me...

Not much news painting wise (got distracted by the new Iron Kingdoms RPG book). But I will get to play my first game of Warhammer Quest in over a decade tonight!

[S_A_T_S]

Ooh, exciting! Don't forget to give everyone D3 bandages at the start, and to give the wizard healing hands!

[Modhail]

S_A_T_S, we should have.... (Didn't see your advice until now.)
My, what a brutal, bloodthirsty beast of a game this is!

We decided to just play the basic game, by the rules in the book. (Seeing that we were all effectively new to the game). We got the Tomb Chamber and rolled up the "Identification" mission (#6, the inheritance dispute one) as the objective.
I haven't got much of a detailed report, sorry... Between figuring out the game myself, explaining it to the others and just general excitement about finally playing Quest I forgot to shoot pics.

On the first run, half our party was dead in the first corridor we explored... Somewhere in the first few turns. At this point we decided that the two survivors of the combat (Dwarf and Elf) would flee the dungeon. After they healed up and got a spare Barbarian and Wizard from storage, they'd try again. We left the part of the dungeon (2 corridors) laid out as they were for try two.
Just beyond our furthest previous progress we were locked in by a portcullis, only to find the Dwarf with the key one section beyond that.

This time we made it all the way to the objective room. There we were ambushed by Skaven just as we were about to enter:


After defeating the Skaven we entered the Tomb Chamber itself. Only to be beset on all sides by a mass of Snotlings and Goblins (result 6 on the objective room table).
We had cleared out the Snotlings and were about to set about the Goblins when we were blindsided by a pack of Orcs (Bloody "ones" for Power!!!) This quickly proved too much for the Barbarian, Elf and Wizard. Outnumbered and alone, the Dwarf fell a turn later, these are his final moments:


This game is tough!! Despite being a bit generous with Killing Blow (we basically allowed it to continue on any model adjacent to the hero, even if it wasn't adjacent to the previous victim) we got clobbered.
It could have been our collective habit of rolling low for ourselves and high for the monsters, as well. My constant ones in the Power phase didn't help either! We regularly had double and even triple bookings of monsters due to that alone.
I guess those nobles will never settle that inheritance question...
But we had a blast and that is what counts!

I need to get more painted, I'm now convinced more than ever that this game deserves it.

[S_A_T_S]

Glad to hear you all enjoyed your first game! It can be fiendishly hard early on, and my group tend to use several house rules:
- No more than one unexpected event at a time
- D3 bandages for starter characters
- Downed characters don't die until the end of the next turn

We've slipped in our latest campaign, as we were far too generous in letting people live (otherwise we would also have wiped two rooms into our first dungeon) and I'm a little worried it might be taking the edge off. It's that dangerous point between fresh, easy to replace characters, and getting resurrection on your wizard so death isn't quite as 'permanent'.

Keep up the awesome adventuring, and hope your wife is pleased she can finally play with her quest set (10-odd years later...)!

[Modhail]

Those house rules sound good, I think we'll try them on the next run.
But how do you handle the "draw another event card immediately" cascades?* Do you still let those occur?

Yeah, she's pleased. Did get several "subtle" comments that the game would be even better with everything painted throughout the night(from everyone in fact...).
If I weren't such a control freak about this set, I'd have wrangled them into a group-paint then and there.


*:We got a nice one yesterday: Portcullis drops(card 1), which causes the Elf to misstep into a pit (card 2)...with a dying dwarf at the bottom(card 3), whose moans cause a small tribe of Goblins (card 4) to show up. That was...interesting.

[S_A_T_S]

Cascades is a good term for them. We'd normally let those happen - it's multiple lots of monsters turning up that is the problem. Dungeon room monsters + 1 lot of unexpected event monsters is fine, but once we have that 'ongoing' event in place, we don't bother turning another, as that would just end up with endless hordes (and believe me, I have experienced endless hordes in this game. It is... unpleasant). Multiple event cards (as opposed to monster cards) in a row just add to the fun and humour, but 12 skaven, 4 minotaurs, 8 bats, 6 goblin archers, 6 goblin spearmen and 9 spiders at level one is pretty harsh (even worse if you use the BL tables and roll 66, like we managed in the first game of our current campaign...)

Wish my wife was quite as enthusiastic about playing WHQ. Maybe if I can find more people she wants to play with it'll be easier to motivate her. When I finish my Quarg Hunter, I might try and do a slow rolling gallery/plog of my WHQ models partly as a tool to get her to finish her models (she owns the warrior priest/plague doctor, witch hunter, war dancer and ogre, so I can't paint those models...)

[Harry]

All good stuff. Love the bases, Great job on the Skaven, the little weapon twist has added a lot of movement to those very static guys and I love the helmet on the orc. The headgear (and the wellies) always ruined those guys but I can see me giving that a try.

[Purplebeard]

Great update. Those new painted Orcs brighten the game up too.