warmaster using whfb miniatures?

[Tupinamba]

Hi guys. I´ve always liked the warmaster rules. However, as most people interested in fantasy, I ended up starting whfb instead (mostly because of player base in my area, but also because of the minis). I have a sizable DE collection and am building up an orc force for lotr/wotr and whfb with alternative models.

The point is, I think that the warmaster rules reflect the idea I have of a wargame in the warhammer setting much better than the whfb ones and, as I´ve now moved away from my player base and have to make do with GF and possibly solo play, I´ve been thinking about using my minis with the warmaster rules.

Has anyone tried it? Would you suggest any adaptation to base size, ranges etc.? I´d quite like to be able to use my monsters and artillery too. Solution for the sizes of commander bases?

Cheers!

[Gerod253]

Greetings!

I cannot speak for the monsters. However standard infantry shouldn't be a problem since everything appears to use 20mm by 40mm bases. So, two infantry figures per base and your good. Six figures will make the standard unit.

However, I would encourage you to consider picking up a 10mm army over time. The figures are very affordable, even more-so when you go with a different company. Go for 6mm, you've said it is just you and your GF so there is nobody else to ague scale size with, and they can get even cheaper. They also store very compactly as does the Terrain. It might be really fun to 'start fresh' so to speak. I know that I wish I had encountered this scale of gaming a long time ago. It would have saved me a lot of time and money.

[Spectrar Ghost]

I agree with the above. Everything, with one or two exceptions, is based on 20mm x40mm bases. This is an important part of the rules mechanic. Starting fresh, and without all my friends already owning 10mm armies, I'd go with Microworld Games 6mm fantasy stuff, which is inexpensive and good quality. They do have miniatures that are appropriate for Orcs and Dark Elves, among others. Remember for Empire you can basically take any War of the Roses historical minis and they'll work. I've had good luck with Baccus for 6mm historicals.

[Tupinamba]

Hi guys and thanks for the replies. I quite like the 10mm scale, actually, but the point of my question is that I already have some 120+ painted 28mm DE. I also have some 100+ painted Rohirrim and 120+ unpainted 28mm orcs/goblins. So, at least for now, it´s really about looking for ways to use them, rather than start something afresh (as I also have several unfinished 15mm FOW units too...)

I´ve been rereading the WOTR rules, and they could be a good alternative (also stand based, proper abstractions etc.), but Warmaster just fits the universe directly, with no need of adaptations, and I like the command system (which I also find interesting for solo wargaming).

Just using the 20-40mm base standards seems odd though, as a stand would just fit 2 elves and the orcs won´t even fit. That´s why I was thinking about some new scaling, such as 40-80mm or 50-100mm (better for the orcs), which would than require the whole adaptation of the other ranges. I´ve seen similar things done to FOW and would like to hear if anyone in the community has done something like that.

[sigur]

I would definately use different base sizes, mostly because units of 6 guys will also look ...just not right (at least to me). If you double the base sizes you should have a decent amount of figures per base (it probably will look quite a bit like WHFB then). If you have a larger table to play on then (bigger than 6' by 4') you should be good.

[Spectrar Ghost]

The WMA rulebook suggests larger base sizes and the same ranges for larger scale models.

[Tupinamba]

Hi guys. I´m gravitating towards using the wotr trays as stands. A WM regiment would have 24 minis, which seems quite right visually. I think that smaller stands, 60-40, should work well, but I already have the wotr trays, so it makes sense.

Now, I´m in doubt about the ranges. Sigur hinted that I´d need a bigger table, which makes sense to me, as by increasing the base size I´d assume I´d have to adapt all other ranges too. But Spectrar Ghost said the ranges would remain equal? That seems odd.

I´ll not have a bigger than standard table, so I hope that the game is feasible in a normal table.

Cheers

[Spectrar Ghost]

Note that the largest stand size recommended in WMA is 50mm x 100mm. WotR Inf bases are 60x115. You could probably increase all the ranges by 50% if you wanted, but it might not prove neccessary. Each command would still move three base-depths for infantry (20cm/8") at normal speed.

If you go the WotR route you'd proably want to experiment a bit and settle on what ranges feel right to you. It probably won't matter unless you expand them so much the table gets too small. For reference, the opposing armies start seven infantry commands apart (140cm) normally. I wouldn't recommend going below 4-5 infantry command seperation (so a 50% range increase) or you'd start losing your ability to maneuver effectively before making contact.

Edit: Another problem I can see occuring with the larger bases is the depth of a brigade. An 'E' brigade (Shooters or Heavies in line in front of 3 standard troops in column) would be 24cm deep, meaning it would not fit in the standard 20cm deployment zone. Increasing the size of the deployment zone decreases the range between armies, further restricting the amount you can change the speeds/ranges.

[Easy E]

Can I recommend you just get the rules for Hail Ceasar and stat accordingly?

[Tupinamba]

Hi there. I´m definitely going to try the wotr tray solution and change the ranges <50%. I´m probably also going to use wotr rule and count as DE with elves and some other profiles (I already have a good idea of what to use to represent them) but I´ll try warmaster too. If the ranges don´t work with so large bases, I´ll think about it and adjust.

I got interested in Hail Ceaser now. I already own Warhammer Historicals and like it and thought about using my minis with this system. The Rohirrim would be good Ostrogoths or similar. But the DE just doesn´t seem right to me. Also, although my take on wargames has a strong historical inclination regarding rules and stuff like command etc., I still like my monsters and magic! How would a purely historical rules system work for that? I think that both WOTR and Warmaster provide a good balance and the "historical ancient/medieval/renaissance battles with monster and magic spice" that´d be my ideal.

[Tupinamba]

Hi guys. Just to let everybody interested in converting whfb minis to warmaster know that people have already done it in a very competent way:

http://warmasterresources.webs.com/warmaster28mm.htm

The site is very good and there is an awesome mega battle report using whfb minis for warmaster too.

Cheers!

[Avatar of the Eldar]

You could also consider just using Hail Caesar rules as they are written by Priestly based on some same core mechanics and oriented on 28mm.

[ogrimdoombringer]

Hi guys. Just to let everybody interested in converting whfb minis to warmaster know that people have already done it in a very competent way:

http://warmasterresources.webs.com/warmaster28mm.htm

The site is very good and there is an awesome mega battle report using whfb minis for warmaster too.

Cheers!

Thanks for the shout out. I put that site together but got frustrated with the authoring tools.
I have much more available at [URL="http://www.warmaster28mm.com/"]
Battle reports, rule resources, links. I use the combat modifications from WM Ancients (2 melee rounds per turn). Basically I am in a similar place to the French WM fantasy players. I use the old school 50mm x 100mm bases as stands. 12 Cavalry per regiment, 24 or 30 Infantry per regiment (Orcs & Chaos at 24, Others at 30). Warmaster at 28mm kicks Warhammer out of the park. Get in touch if you want more details.

[ogrimdoombringer]

Thanks for the shout out. I put that site together but got frustrated with the authoring tools.
I have much more available at [URL="http://www.warmaster28mm.com/"]

I didn't format that correctly.
It should be http://www.warmaster28mm.com
Please take a look.

[Tupinamba]

Hey Ogrimdoombringer! Dind´t see these replies here. I tried to contact you trough the old site and when I didn´t get any answer, let the idea on ice. Thanks for posting here and for putting up the new site!

I´m perusing it right now and will try it out this weekend.

Cheers and let´s keep the contact!

[ogrimdoombringer]

Hey Ogrimdoombringer! Dind´t see these replies here. I tried to contact you trough the old site and when I didn´t get any answer, let the idea on ice. Thanks for posting here and for putting up the new site!

I´m perusing it right now and will try it out this weekend.

Cheers and let´s keep the contact!

Sorry about that. You can email me directly at simon17 at verizon dot net

[toco]

Hi guys. Just to let everybody interested in converting whfb minis to warmaster know that people have already done it in a very competent way:

http://warmasterresources.webs.com/warmaster28mm.htm

The site is very good and there is an awesome mega battle report using whfb minis for warmaster too.

Cheers!

This is my try:

https://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/38814/28mm-warmaster

If you like miniatures and boardgames, then you might like Warmaster a lot! It's a great set of rules meant to use with miniatures on a tabletop. The gameflow is smooth and it allows you to fight a battle in one evening. This is in contrast with Warhammer Fantasy Battle, a rules-set meant for 28mm miniatures. Warmaster is designed to use with 10mm miniatures.

You can find quite a lot of articles on the internet about trying to play Warmaster with 28mm armies. Many fans added their own houserules, some with clever calculations to convert ranges and distances.

Because WARMASTER IS GREAT, I'd rather stay as close to the original rules-set as possible. (Note: I followed the same design idea for "Allied HeroQuest". Trying to keep all the official rules intact and only tweaking and updating minor things.)

The official rulebook and armylists for Warmaster remain unchanged. Leave all distances as they are (in cm). We do need a new definition for 'stands'. In Warmaster a 'stand' equals one playing piece.

Infantry
20mm square base: 1 stand = 5 bases in a row (10cm wide unit)
25mm square base: 1 stand = 4 bases in a row (10cm wide unit)
40mm square base: 1 stand = 1 base (12cm wide unit)
25mm round base: 1 stand = 4 in a row (10cm wide unit)

e.g. For Bretonnian Men-at-arms on 20mm square bases, to create a unit of three stands, this results in 3 rows of 5 Men-at-arms. On the table it will look like a WFB regiment 5 wide and 3 deep.

Ranged Infantry
20mm square base: 1 stand = 3 in a row (18cm wide unit)

e.g. For High Elf Archers on 20mm square bases, to create a unit of three stands, this results in 1 row of 9 archers. On the table it will look like a WFB regiment 9 wide and 1 deep.

Cavalry (or infantry monsters)
25-50mm square base: 1 stand = 2 side by side (15cm wide unit)
40mm square base: 1 stand = 1 base (12cm wide unit)

e.g. This results in 6 Chaos Knights in one row. Or three Minotaurs.

Chariots
3 stands = 1 base (5cm wide)

Chariots use only one physical miniature stand, but the official stats remain intact. Use tokens or dice to indicate damage.

Skaven Jezzails
25-50mm square base: 1 stand = 1 base
OR
2x 20mm square base: 1 stand = 2 bases behind eachother

I would allow to add Warpfire Thrower Teams to create a mixed ranged infantry unit.



The army lists need a minor adjustment to fit most people's WFB armies. Following Monstrous Mounts are available to High Elves, Empire, Bretonnia and Dark Elves:

Griffon 80 points
Pegasus 15 points
Bear 10 points

Following unit sizes may be halved. The new amount of hits and points cost are below.

1 Empire Cannon: Hits 1 - Points 45
1 Undead Bone Thrower: Hits 1 - Points 35
1 Elven Bolt Thrower: Hits 1 - Points 35
1 Dwarf Cannon: Hits 1 - Points 45
1 Dark Elf Bolt Thrower: Hits 1 - Points 30
1 Kislev War Wagon: Hits 2 - Points 70

I have converted my 5th edition WFB army lists. A WFB army worth 2000 points will be +/- 1000 points in Warmaster.
Well... that's about all. It will work. Now's the chance to see your 28mm armies on the table WHILE having only one game evening each month...