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Thread: Now that The End Times has begun, what novels, games, etc. are no longer canon?

  1. #1
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    Now that The End Times has begun, what novels, games, etc. are no longer canon?

    Ones I know about:

    The Storm of Chaos naturally
    The second edition of the Warhammer rpg, since it was set days after the Storm of Chaos ended
    Maybe the Warcry card game, since I believe some of the card expansions were set in the Storm of Chaos
    I believe some of the Gotrek and Felix novels stated they occurred after the Storm of Chaos

    Are there any others?

  2. #2
    Chapter Master Col. Tartleton's Avatar
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    Re: Now that The End Times has begun, what novels, games, etc. are no longer canon?

    Well Age of Reckoning was never meant to be canon so that's another one. I think most of the other Warhammer Fantasy video games have been historical or intentionally uncanon and thus not effected.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Now that The End Times has begun, what novels, games, etc. are no longer canon?

    Quote Originally Posted by dram View Post
    I believe some of the Gotrek and Felix novels stated they occurred after the Storm of Chaos

    Are there any others?
    I already Adress this in another theme: every book after manslayer(and maybe orcslayer) is now gone since it take place after storm of chaos, meaning pretty much that the whloe Nathan long run of the duo is now Out

  4. #4
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    Re: Now that The End Times has begun, what novels, games, etc. are no longer canon?

    Nah, i'd say with the end Times boring sheenanigans the spirit of warhammer is gone.

    I only consider stuff I like as canon. And that method is how GW intented people to think about what is canon and not.

    At least it was earlier like in 2005 -2006.

    Storm of chaos > end Times

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    Re: Now that The End Times has begun, what novels, games, etc. are no longer canon?

    Quote Originally Posted by kramplarv View Post
    Nah, i'd say with the end Times boring sheenanigans the spirit of warhammer is gone.

    I only consider stuff I like as canon. And that method is how GW intented people to think about what is canon and not.

    At least it was earlier like in 2005 -2006.

    Storm of chaos > end Times
    Agreed. You know, ever since the first End Times book came out, I've been deathly afraid of what might become of my own background - it's something I put a lot of work into, but it does not fit with the End Times canon at all (and I have no desire to change it to fit, since I'm not that fond of the End Times canon), so I've been concerned that it might not sit well with the wider Warhammer community anymore (which would be a shame, since at the end of the day all stories exist to be told), but if there's more people out there with your attitude towards background canon, then there might just be an audience for it after all.

    Kudos to you for restoring some of my faith in the Warhammer community and the Internet.
    Last edited by Kakapo42; 30-11-2014 at 09:58.
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    Chapter Master Lord Zarkov's Avatar
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    Re: Now that The End Times has begun, what novels, games, etc. are no longer canon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Razios View Post
    I already Adress this in another theme: every book after manslayer(and maybe orcslayer) is now gone since it take place after storm of chaos, meaning pretty much that the whloe Nathan long run of the duo is now Out
    Since Kinslayer clearly follows on from the NL G&F books I think it taking place after SoC has been retconned rather than the whole books.


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  7. #7
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    Re: Now that The End Times has begun, what novels, games, etc. are no longer canon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Zarkov View Post
    Since Kinslayer clearly follows on from the NL G&F books I think it taking place after SoC has been retconned rather than the whole books.


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    This

    You just have to forget about making sense of G&F timeline now.

    Everything beyond Manslayer was already set in the future compared to the SoC timeline (thanks to the first timeskip) now Kinslayer adds another timeskip while following up the plot of the previous books

    If you do the math,Kinslayer would end up being at least 20 years in the future compared to the ET timeline
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    Re: Now that The End Times has begun, what novels, games, etc. are no longer canon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fen View Post
    This

    You just have to forget about making sense of G&F timeline now.

    Everything beyond Manslayer was already set in the future compared to the SoC timeline (thanks to the first timeskip) now Kinslayer adds another timeskip while following up the plot of the previous books

    If you do the math,Kinslayer would end up being at least 20 years in the future compared to the ET timeline
    wait, what? Another timeskip? just....how?

  9. #9

    Re: Now that The End Times has begun, what novels, games, etc. are no longer canon?

    It is still possible that the storm of chaos returns in the final end time book. Obvious some details will have to bee changed, but I would not be surprised thet we will see the forces of chaos attacking Middenheim again. This time it will even make sence that Manfred turns up.

    That said, the Warhammer roleplay 2nd edition will still be out of canon as Altdorf, Marienburg and Talabheim have not fallen in these books. (I hoped skaven would destroy Talabheim)

  10. #10
    Chapter Master RobC's Avatar
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    Re: Now that The End Times has begun, what novels, games, etc. are no longer canon?

    If you want to get really picky, I'd say the mass changes to Warhammer's metaphysics means anything prior to End Times is now non-canon.

    Seriously, I can't get my head around how we've got to here. It's as though someone decided to completely disregard anything that they didn't like or didn't get.

  11. #11
    Chapter Master grumbaki's Avatar
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    Re: Now that The End Times has begun, what novels, games, etc. are no longer canon?

    Already ET is kinda mirroring the Storm of Chaos.


    Storm of Chaos:
    * Volkmar leads a crusade north to stop Archaon. He gets splattered.

    End Times:
    * Volkmar leads a crusade into Sylvania to stop Vlad. He gets splattered.

    Storm of Chaos:
    * Crom the Conqueror is sent to punch a hole through Karak-Kadrin's territory to get into the undefended Empire. He gets splattered by Vlad.

    End Times
    * Crom the Conqueror is sent through a hole in the Auric Bastion to get to the undefended Empire. He gets splattered by Vlad (kinda...)

    Storm of Chaos:
    * Rather than go in all at once, Archaon has his lieutenants attack the Empire from different angles. Each lieutenant represents on of the four chaos Gods.

    End Times:
    * Rather than go in all at once, Archaon sends the Glottkin, along with the rest of the Nurglites, to hit the Empire from a different angle.

    Storm of Chaos:
    * Archaon busts up Kislev something fierce, but ignores most of it to get to the Empire quicker. Erengrad gets sacked.

    End Times:
    * Archaon destroys Kislev entirely, with only Erengrad surviving. Funny how that went backwards.

    ---------------

    From the above, you can see alot of parallels between the Storm of Chaos and the End Times. The difference between the two is that SoC was meant to keep a status quo. ET is meant to shatter the status quo. But the basic story is there.

    We are at the part now where the invasion is about to begin in earnest. Only with this telling of the story, it is 100x more grimdark. I fully expect Archaon to head towards Mddenheim. In large part because it is the only real city that the Empire has left, and it's greatest fortress. Shatter that city, and what is left? It'd be tearing the heart out of the Empire. And just like SoC, it will all depend on how fast Karl Franz can arrive, with what is left of the Army of the Reik. The inverse here being that in SoC, the Army of the Reik was made to be big enough to turn the tide by it's numbers, while here the Army of the Reik is shattered, but Karl Franz can take on just about anything by himself.

    I wouldn't be at all surprised if the ET culminates in a huge free for all at Middenheim.
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  12. #12
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    Re: Now that The End Times has begun, what novels, games, etc. are no longer canon?

    I really like the origin of Glottkin. That seems to me a retreat to more of the old school gray Warhammer than the boring black/white which has been going on since the release of the 8th ed.

    I am not happy with the massive changes in the world though I would have preferred smaller changes on a smaller scale. Both in time and events.
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    Chapter Master Mike3791's Avatar
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    Re: Now that The End Times has begun, what novels, games, etc. are no longer canon?

    Quote Originally Posted by kramplarv View Post
    I am not happy with the massive changes in the world though I would have preferred smaller changes on a smaller scale. Both in time and events.
    You mean like random empire warrior priest killing random witch? Plenty of novels like that already exist.

    Getting back to ET, currently Middenhiem and Nuln are the only two major Empire cities that haven't been touched yet. There's been so many curveballs thrown that it's difficult to predict anything.

  14. #14
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    Re: Now that The End Times has begun, what novels, games, etc. are no longer canon?

    Nah I meant stuff like timeline advancing from 2522 to 2526 and Karl Franz gets an heir, settra claims another city, Dwarfs found/retake a hold, a new invention are discovered, the lost blueprints to steam tanks are partially found etc.
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    Re: Now that The End Times has begun, what novels, games, etc. are no longer canon?

    Quote Originally Posted by kramplarv View Post
    Nah I meant stuff like timeline advancing from 2522 to 2526 and Karl Franz gets an heir, settra claims another city, Dwarfs found/retake a hold, a new invention are discovered, the lost blueprints to steam tanks are partially found etc.
    Oh, little victory your are talking about, I can totally understand that

    For me I just wished end time have a little more preparation, it feel too rushed, like everything is just coming togeder and the writer have to be quick and picked all the plotlines

  16. #16

    Re: Now that The End Times has begun, what novels, games, etc. are no longer canon?

    Quote Originally Posted by grumbaki View Post
    Already ET is kinda mirroring the Storm of Chaos.
    Nice summary.

    You also got the bretonnian crusade in both and the slayer army coming to the rescue (In Sylvania this thime.)

    Both the Nagash and Glottkin book also mentions Todbringer being possessed with that one eyed beastman. So there is obvious something going to happen i Middenheim.

    There is also Nuln, but I cannot remember it being mentioned, so I guess it will avoid attention this time.

  17. #17
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    Re: Now that The End Times has begun, what novels, games, etc. are no longer canon?

    Quote Originally Posted by dirach. View Post
    It is still possible that the storm of chaos returns in the final end time book. Obvious some details will have to bee changed, but I would not be surprised thet we will see the forces of chaos attacking Middenheim again. This time it will even make sence that Manfred turns up.

    That said, the Warhammer roleplay 2nd edition will still be out of canon as Altdorf, Marienburg and Talabheim have not fallen in these books. (I hoped skaven would destroy Talabheim)

    Id expect Altdorf to be rebuilt ( although it should technically be unlovable for a few thousand years IMO ) and as for talabheim ... I think I'll just ignore what happened there , in fairness it was absolute crap that bit , flooded my ****

  18. #18

    Re: Now that The End Times has begun, what novels, games, etc. are no longer canon?

    Quote Originally Posted by dalezzz View Post
    Id expect Altdorf to be rebuilt ( although it should technically be unlovable for a few thousand years IMO ) and as for talabheim ... I think I'll just ignore what happened there , in fairness it was absolute crap that bit , flooded my ****
    I asume Middenheim, Talabec and Altdorf will be rebuildt, but Warhammer fantasy roleplay sencond edition takes time right after the siege of Middenheim and this is to early for these cities to be rebuild and unmarked by the battles I guess.

  19. #19
    Chapter Master Craze_b0i's Avatar
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    Re: Now that The End Times has begun, what novels, games, etc. are no longer canon?

    Quote Originally Posted by dram View Post
    Ones I know about:

    The Storm of Chaos naturally
    The second edition of the Warhammer rpg, since it was set days after the Storm of Chaos ended
    Maybe the Warcry card game, since I believe some of the card expansions were set in the Storm of Chaos
    I believe some of the Gotrek and Felix novels stated they occurred after the Storm of Chaos

    Are there any others?
    I think that stuff had gone already. It's pretty much agreed that SOC was gone by the start of 8th edition. Likewise WFRP 2 was replaced by WFRP 3 which is also pre SOC. It's been said a while that G&F are basically their own separate timeline, from about 4th edition onwards none of the dates match up to current lore.
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    Re: Now that The End Times has begun, what novels, games, etc. are no longer canon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Razios View Post
    wait, what? Another timeskip? just....how?
    Well,from what i've understood of it,felix has been living the married-man life in Altdorf for a few years at the start of Kinslayer so...That way i guess
    In an age of darkness...The truth must die
    ------
    The sons of Bretonnia were the most valiant in the world,he decreed.They would not wait meekly whilst the realm crumbled around them.The land would be cleansed,the creatures of darkness slaughtered and driven into the ocean.
    Bretonnia would ride out once more:for honour,for the king,and for the Lady!

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