Warhammer 9th Edition Roundup - Discussion

[Lord Dan]

Well, since I haven't been banned, I'm guessing Darnok has given my roundup thread his blessing. I have some time this evening, so, now that things have calmed down a bit, I'm going to go through and consolidate what we know about 9th here. As with the other thread, I will update the OP with any new information we get, so there won't be any need to sift through what I'm sure will wind up being many, many pages.

A lot of this will be pulled from Darnok's initial "bomb drop" thread, however with no central discussion point I've seen a lot of other snippets cropping up in various threads, as well. I'm going to need your help with gathering this info, guys, so please let me know what I missed:

Overview

Release:

[9th will be released] ... Around July.

'9th' [or] whatever is next for fantasy [...] coming 2015 in the summer.

Starter Box:

Chaos Vs "Humans".

From BOLS:
[Boxed Set] Will include good guys (the Forces of Light) versus Chaos – in a loose fashion. The Boxed Set is set in a former city of the Empire (save your breathe, it’s NOT Mordheim), but luckily the End Times offers up plenty of new choices. Boxed Set includes a campaign at a skirmish level and is firmly designed to introduce new players into the game at this smaller model-count level.

New Production/Release Model:

Expect armies to have fewer units in their core books, which will be heavily focused on the fluff for where they are now, what they've been doing in the centuries immediately following the sundering. This will create a more "balanced" pool as they will be rapidly produced and released (consider a scale even somewhat faster than what we've had for 40k these past few years). ... These will then be expanded on with supplements, not intended as money-grabs (as I am sure they will be received by the majority of your readers), but more as guided hands to acknowledge deficiencies in books, or even "global meta" changes. The first time that Games Workshop will be openly acknowledging things that need changes. These units will typically get white dwarf rules treatments heralding the release in hardback of all of the new units from the previous month(s), for a new setting expansion, which will pit several of the races together (representing a collision).

Each new faction has like 3 core units that will always be on the shelf. Much faster releases of stuff, mainly characters and special units of 2-5 fancy models (like Morghasts) that have their own rules right in the box, so not dependent on a static army book. Many of the these non-core models are only available for a limited time (say 6 months to a year), so they don't take up shelf space forever and ever. Many existing models are not usable in 9th.

There may be a switch to softcover books in the future, with at least the newest (previously only hardback) 8th edition TK book now seen in softcover:

Attachment 205874 Picture taken today at a GW store in UK.

I've been told GW have actually bought a printer to do softback editions in house. This could go some way to relate to the relative quick reprint of the TK books in softback, as well as the ET books that have been released.

Faction Reduction:

the only way to own the IP is to loose all the generic Fantasy that other companies can copy ... normal Dwarves, Elves and sure as heck you have to get rid of the historical based human armies ... or you can go build an Empire or Bretonnian army from anyone's miniatures.

One of the scariest rumours about 9th is undoubted that the mini ranges we know and love will be squatted, and this is correct, to an extent. The ranges will be getting completely revamped, some units will disappear into nothingness, new units will arise in wake of their fall and a select few may just survive the End Times. ...

The Chaos faction will be mostly Daemons, with a few tacked on units from the other two books. This of course means the Chaos faction will be the largest faction, but it will be joined by units which are firmly entrenched in the GW IP and as such can't be copied by other manufacturers. A certain aspect of Chaos is going the way of the squat for this very reason, Hint: The gods are still there. Due to the nature of the new world, or pocket worlds rather, where Chaos is everywhere, Daemons will form the bulk of the Chaos armies. Generic stuff like Warhounds won't be sticking around in place of units like Flesh Hounds.

All the Orc and Goblin concepts will be combined into singular new concepts. Savage/Orcs/Black Orcs becoming one type of Orc for example. I initially heard way back that two armies would be joining the O&G, one would replace trolls, the other would lend some of it's concepts to the new O&G while being squatted themselves. Although the nature of the rules would let you imitate that squatted faction in Newhammer. Squigs and other O&G beasties will be made more predominant in place of boars, due to their IP able nature. I also heard Orcs would become, "Orks", but I'm not entirely sure if that was a joke.

Alot of Undead units are very similar with the combined list and as such alot of units will be going away. Ushabti for example and the Casket/Black Coach which are fairly redundant in light of the Mortis Engine. The concept of constructs will stay around in some form or the other. The Morghasts for example.

Skaven keep their more tech and frankenstein-esque units to define the armies new look. Plaguey and sneaky Shaven take the back seat.

Warmachines in general will be mounted on other units, to again save shelf space, and also to suit the more mobile style of a skirmish game better.

...

7 Champions and an army of light. No more Lizardmen, but still playable. No more Gnoblars/Skinks. They become Goblins. No more Beastmen. Elves become more Eldary, units take on aspects of their gods. There are some units like the Blood Knights that I expected to survive into 9th, but the events of the books have made me doubt this is going to happen anymore. They were due to be updated. Plus it fits with the new merging unit policy, not sure that's happening anymore though. Something similar happened to the Bone Giant, that being said I heard the Bone Giant was getting a redesign and a release some point in the future.

9th edition will have 6 factions. Model diversity cut in half shelf space. New world and new age so current factions and lore aren't recognizable at all.

Faction reduction to 6 - true

factions :
1) Chaos : Demons + Beasts + Mortals
2) Elves
3) Empire
4) Undead
5) Orcs and Goblins
6) Skavens

A list of units "that will survive 9th" according to WhispererofTruth:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum...6.page#7573530

[WhispersofTruth] later posted that [the above] list is accurate, but incomplete, meaning there may be additional kits that survive that are not listed, with the implication being that you should be OK to purchase and paint these kits (but not base).

About “waiting” armies : for the bretonnians, there is a book that will follow this year, but perhaps we can’t call this “army book” because it will be very different from what you had until then. It will be closer from the End Times books recently issued. There will be in it new units, which could join the Forces of Order, and very close from a Bretonnian army, but not only. For the Skavens, the amount of new stuff approaching is just unprecedented (although I have no visibility on dates). It won’t be really “skavens” as we knew them, but a sort of evolution type very nice and inspired. No merger with Chaos for them (anyway, no merger for anyone!). About Beastmen, they don’t have directly the same processing, to the best of my knowledge, but no doubt they will benefit from a wealth of new opportunities for chaos. I had no evidence that it’s matter of squatting them, nor nobody else.

New Faction:

New faction... heavily armoured, religious, "good" human warriors fighting with the power of the gods. (Warhammer Space Marines, basically). Karl Franz Ascended seems to be the prototype or precursor for this concept, AFAICT.

According to the rumors from DakkaDakka, the new holy Knights will be similar in concept to Grail Knights, but won't actually be an evolution of Grail Knights or descended from them. That seems to indicate that this future human faction won't have any real ties to the Bretonnia of old, and will be entirely Empire based.

Along with the Matrix-esque suggestion that everything will be a new faction:

About the armies that follow (“factions” J ) : they won’t be "bundling" of existing armies, but almost all new prospects. These are all new units with an aesthetic different from what we knew and new historic lines, new characters, we could almost consider some of them as new “races”. Nevertheless, each new release will be integrated into one or more pre-existent conventional armies. Some new units, for example, will just belong to “Forces of Order” or “Forces of Destruction”. No stress. You can keep your old collection (all your collection), and enjoy with it.

Theme

I just heard they are changing the setting and Warhammer goes into dark steampunk style - that would fit the whole "300 years later" thing. And another thing is this - big kits, steamtanks and variations (chaos engines, elvish magic constructs) are to be centerpieces and fill in the same role as in 40k. It could be complete ******** of course but it DOES looks promising. Anybody remembers Flintlock system?

The game will become more Fantasy like, less cannons and warmachines. More magical. It's not just the "Humans" that get empowered by the gods all factions will experience this.

Models

Chaos Dragon:

I said the chaos dragon was on the way, but I didn't say when. I deliberately kept that rumour out of the Archaon thread because I wasn't sure when it would arrive.

Modular Terrain:

From BOLS: WFB 9th will kick off a new set of products that cover not only the new surviving factions, but new modular terrain pieces that support the game at all size levels and reflect the new “Post End-Times” world.

Rules

Round Bases:

On the topic of round bases. The latest version I saw used round bases, but units had the option of ranking up to receive the typical bonuses. To rank up using round bases, it is intended to use new movement trays which have circular cuts to hold the bases of the appropriate size.

I think it will be round bases.

As for rebasing your models, will you have to rebase them? Well as I understood it, yes and no. From what I gathered the game was moving to a skirmish game format with options for models to rank up in slot-trays, so technically if you always kept your models in appropriately sized movement trays you be able to play with your old square based models, you just wouldn't be able to skirmish them.

Some Warhammer miniatures will indeed now sold on round bases, but it’s the consequence of some simplified rules and not a transition to a new system, or 40k-like, or I don’t know what. No link with the new “skirmish game”. The elements attached to units will be on round base (as skaven regimental weapons or dark elves cauldron of blood for example, but also characters according to pictures I’ve seen), are no longer joined the unit but move next to, and may have a round or oval base. But if your old version is not on a round base, you can still play with, no problem.

Apparent "proof" of upcoming round bases seen in White Dwarf:

Scale:

Warhammer 9th ed will indeed focus on a smaller-scale, Skirmish form of Warhammer. ... BUT, it will still be possible to scale up to play the sort of games we have loved in 8th edition.

The game will shift towards smaller elite types more in style with units like the Putrid Blightkings. From what I understood new models of say; Chaos Warriors and Black Orcs for example would become larger on an individual sense, but smaller as a unit where you might have only 5 models in the unit. This allows you too buy of box of say 20 goblins and still have that box represent a horde.

But 70%-80% [of elite troops will have 2 wounds] maybe
Cavalry-[2 wounds]
Elite cavalry- 2 or 3 wounds
New elite units- 100% 2 wounds or more in some cases.

And talk of the skirmish gaming being an "intro" to the main system:

via a reader on Faeit 212:
This one is just a rumour. Although an interesting one at that. I know everyone has been afraid of bubblehammer and how warhammer will become a skirmish game. Well they may be pleasantly surprised. From what I have heard warhammer skirmish is going to happen. But it may not be 9th edition, in fact there could be a new system released based around a very significant empire city that may have just undergone some hard times. I won't say more as I am unsure on the reliability of this and don't want to give false hope but regardless we will know for certain by the end of February.

About this “skirmish” game: I’m not completely sure about that : this has taken many different forms over the settings but it seems to be one of the most tested aspects in recent years by GW teams. It is not intended to be the main way to play Battle. Currently, forces will be selected from a list of predefined choices, more restrained that the currents army books, without worrying percentage points, points themselves will not so important anymore: it will be destabilizing for the old players, but the number of miniatures contained in a unit or its point value could be no longer as important as before in this system. Players would have the choice to comply or not the points. A book will summarize the possible choices for all existing armies. It was thought just for fun, and almost all special rules of existing models could be ignored because of it. ... New releases will be essentially new entries, unique monsters, characters, and elite units of 2 to 5 figures. This will change progressively the overall appearance of the armies, with fewer miniatures (but larger). There will always be a place for large infantry units; however I don’t have a precise view of the new rules, that's why I can’t say if it will always be interesting to play big infantry units, or not.

8th Edition Compatibility:

So for the purposes of compatibility, you can use your 8th edition hardback book, representing a section of the culture that hasn't been horrifically changed by the End Times (Recognizing it will have the same drawbacks of using a dated book that are experienced elsewhere). You can use End Times rules/concepts, representing a section that is still being torn apart. You can use the new, post-end times rules to represent what is "current."

Any armies you have built using the end times lists will have a place in 9th, so there's nothing you could buy right now under end times that would suddenly be un-usable when the new edition hits.

Can you use your Lizardmen come the summer ... Yes. Will you see any more Lizardmen ... No.

From what's been passed onto me the armies will still be around in one shape or another, be it as their own faction or as part of another. Please note that at this point I'm not saying everything will be playable as it most certainly won't. When I say nobody gets squatted I mean that nobody disappears from the fluff entirely. They may take on a different form now though.

Fluff

Bubbles:

The Warhammer World gets shattered on a dimensional level during the climax of the ET. No more "map of the Old World" - it's now little bubbles of reality, where pockets of civilisation try desperately to eke a living before the next collision with another bubble, which may be full of Chaos. (To address the problem of "how come my Tomb Kings of Khemri are fighting against Wood Elves from Athel Loren?", not that I get the impression that either of those will still exist, but you get the idea)

The concept of a huge chunks of the world in a sea similar to the warp from 40k - true.

The faction thing is the Warahmmer World post End Times. The bubble thing (however they try to sell it) is how you still get to play with your lovingly collected and painted Empire/Bretonnian/Lizardman/High Elf/etc .... army post End Times. The new factions can not exist in the same world as the original armies.

Faction Reduction:

Lizards are gone in space. Dwarves survivors join the empire with the ogres.

We know that in the End Times: Thanquol book, the ogres team up with the orcs and goblins, not the Empire. Since many of the six factions have already joined together, that may mean the ogres will be with the greenskins in the next edition.

Other:
40K is next :

You are laughing now. This will cause a ***** storm of similar proportions on the 40K boards to the one we have been enjoying on the fantasy side.

I know there's still a ton to add, however I think I've covered the basics so far. What else do we know?