Workshop Unofficial 9th Edition Fluff?

[Presentdent]

Oh, one thing I did forget is that Emmanuelle von Liebewitz was old friends with Karl Franz and actually became Elector Countess with Karl Franz's aid. So if Nuln and the Countess survive it is quite possible that she would back Luitpold II.

Though if both Valten and Karl Franz are gone, with no Sigmar around, the Cult of Sigmar would most likely support him as he is the son of Karl Franz, an Emperor visibly blessed by Sigmar.

Actually, quick question about Middenheim, what's Ulric's status? After all Teclis did seal the Flame of Ulric, depowering the God and effectively killing him, with the last bits of his power going into two men who both get killed by Archaon, completely finishing off the God.

Teclis stealing the Flame of Ulric is what precipitates Middenheim's fall, and as I think an Empire without Middenheim gets a little sad, I was essentially thinking to myself "Teclis doesn't steal the flame. Figure out later." Any ideas on your end? As this version of the End Times doesn't involve the Middenheim ritual and instead involves creating a new, magical vortex (maybe under Albion?), could that figure in? I forget, what is the flame of Ulric stolen for in the first place? One of Teclis' silly plots.

[Paviel]

One idea put forth was that the reason Archaon is ultimately defeated (and to get rid of the Incarnates' power, as it kinda screws up the post End Times status quo) was that there is a last ditch effort to create a new vortex, rather than just teaming up, Avengers Style, to fight at Middenheim, Teclis and Co. create a new Vortex elsewhere and succeed, but depower (or kill?) themselves in the process. And this ultimately allows Archaon to falter, for Valten to win, and for the Skaven's gambit to chitter all over the world to ultimately come to naught. Valten still dies in the end, though, to wrap up his narrative nicely. And Grimgor also being there (but dying) is a nice call-back to SoC and wraps up the Once And Future Git story (as Reynolds called it).

But who could have created a new Vortex, and how, and where?

Keep in mind that the only reason why the Vortex in Ulthuan works so well is because of standing stones all over the world directing the Winds of Magic towards it, so at the very least those stones would have had to be "rerouted" to the location of a new Vortex.

[Cèsar de Quart]

So... Emperor Vlad vs Sigmar? That would be fun.

But my idea is more than anything to scrap the End Times alltogether, except for the good parts: the Sundering of Ulthuan and Malekith as Eternal King, the fall of half of the Empire (poor Ostland, their uniforms colors were awesome), to make the stakes go up (and to make Mordheim's scope of play more extended!), and also the resurrection of Nagash was a neat concept, as well as having Vlad re-instated as Elector Count, I loved that part. They didn't do much with it, but it was cool.

I'd be in favour of killing off most of the important guys save from Gelt, Todbringer, Schwartzhelm and Helborg. The first two, becauser they can lead different Empire factions with their own personalities. The last two, because they've been a dynamic duo of bro force old sods for almost 20 years now. And how nice are their moustaches!

This is what I've imagined. Yes, I've got too much free time.



You've got a very martial-oriented, totalitarian Todbringer, Ulrican empire; a very religiously crazed Empire officially under Liutpold but really under Volkmar (after all, these were really almost the End Times!) and a steampunk / Gold Magic Empire led from Nuln and Averheim with a specially strong devotion to machinery (and magical machinery!). Which means, of course, clockwork golems. Wouldn't you buy them minis? I would!

Granted, this is very Empire-centric. But I am an old Empire player. I can't help it.

[Presentdent]

So... Emperor Vlad vs Sigmar? That would be fun.

But my idea is more than anything to scrap the End Times alltogether, except for the good parts: the Sundering of Ulthuan and Malekith as Eternal King, the fall of half of the Empire (poor Ostland, their uniforms colors were awesome), to make the stakes go up (and to make Mordheim's scope of play more extended!), and also the resurrection of Nagash was a neat concept, as well as having Vlad re-instated as Elector Count, I loved that part. They didn't do much with it, but it was cool.

I'd be in favour of killing off most of the important guys save from Gelt, Todbringer, Schwartzhelm and Helborg. The first two, becauser they can lead different Empire factions with their own personalities. The last two, because they've been a dynamic duo of bro force old sods for almost 20 years now. And how nice are their moustaches!

This is what I've imagined. Yes, I've got too much free time.



You've got a very martial-oriented, totalitarian Todbringer, Ulrican empire; a very religiously crazed Empire officially under Liutpold but really under Volkmar (after all, these were really almost the End Times!) and a steampunk / Gold Magic Empire led from Nuln and Averheim with a specially strong devotion to machinery (and magical machinery!). Which means, of course, clockwork golems. Wouldn't you buy them minis? I would!

Granted, this is very Empire-centric. But I am an old Empire player. I can't help it.

Cesar, I love that you've put the work in to create a map. And I'm generally on board with just keeping the "good parts" of End Times. Let me argue with a few of your points, though.

-Volkmar: If you want to keep Nagash's resurrection around, remember that Volkmar gets sacrificed as part of the ritual. So, instead of Volkmar remaining the Grand Theogonist, how about Luthor Huss (as the only remaining Sigmarite of any renown, after Altdorf's destruction) getting elected as the new Grand Theogonist and leading an even more radical Sigmarite cult into the new age? Also, clears out an old character like Volkmar who's been screwed around with since Storm of Chaos.

-Todbringer: Todbringer's death, while not honorable, as poetic. Karl Franz's only rival at the time of his election; the only man that could have led the Empire into a new age... and he throws it all away for the insane grudge he's held against Kharak One-Eye, finally overcoming the beast, only to be killed by all the Beastmen around him in his crowning moment of Victory. Instead of Todbringer leading the North, I'd go for Theoderic Gausser, the Count of Nordland (as I've said throughout this thread). The man is ambitious (still calls himself the Prince of Marienburg, despite their promises to execute him, and had clashed with Todbringer over claims to the Drakwald), rides a Griffon (Emperor-style), and has been humiliated (one of his footnotes is that his wife had an affair with the captain of the Nordland Seahawks Bloodbowl team). I could see him gleefully celebrating Marienburg's demise after defying him for so long, and plotting to take the ruins (possibly as a new Capital of the Empire), while positioning his forces in Middenheim/absorbing Middenland, now that Todbringer's dead -- though the church of Ulric isn't entirely happy with him, he's at least not supported by the church of Sigmar, like Luitpold.

Schwartzhelm: C'mon. He got a bad-ass mutual-kill against the *********** Herald of Khorne, Valkia the Bloody. As fine a way for a man to go out.

Kurt Helborg: I can't imagine he'd ever leave Karl Franz's side, so his death is also fitting, but I can be convinced here.

Otherwise, I love it all, especially your notes for Gelt, though I could imagine Emanuelle's loyalties being divided and tentatively supporting Luitpold, as well. Clockwork Golems sounds fantastic, especially with Gelt's plotting (who could be playing Vlad and the other Empire factions against each other, that scheming necromancer).


@Paviel:

I understand your concerns, which is why I've come here. I was hoping someone could help me hash that out. I was thinking Albion (conveniently removing a place that GW never bothered to flesh out, anyway) becomes the next Vortex, as it was also a location of one of the mighty runestones. Given that we're saving the Lizards in this situation, they could also lend their help, and it could also be a reason for Teclis and the Incarnates' disappearance from the setting, if they destroys themselves in the act of summoning another Vortex, bringing all the winds of magic together.

[Horus38]

Some points I'll raise regarding Lizardmen (the only faction really near and dear to my heart) in relation to the snippet you posted-

* Although it hasn't been expanded on in several editions the temple city of Zlatlan is still in the Southlands and has one of the few surviving 2nd generation slann in residence. All lizardmen units are already in place there so more temple cities arriving is not something new - they already have a power base established.
* The only "resources" lizardmen actually need are their spawning pools. Their cities are pretty much self-sustaining given the slann's mastery of magic and technology on their ships/cities. They would not be focused on expanding territory, but re-interpreting or continuing on with the Great Plan (see next point).
*A somewhat obscure fact is that the Southlands Slann actually have a more intact sequence of golden plaques recording the Great Plan then their Lustrian counterparts. It would be interesting to see what the rest of the Slann would do with this newly acquired knowledge.

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Teclis stealing the Flame of Ulric is what precipitates Middenheim's fall, and as I think an Empire without Middenheim gets a little sad, I was essentially thinking to myself "Teclis doesn't steal the flame. Figure out later." Any ideas on your end? As this version of the End Times doesn't involve the Middenheim ritual and instead involves creating a new, magical vortex (maybe under Albion?), could that figure in? I forget, what is the flame of Ulric stolen for in the first place? One of Teclis' silly plots.

The resurrection of Tyrion so he could become the Incarnate of Light. Of course the fall of Middenheim did lead to discovery of the magic mcguffin that Teclis and the Incarnates were planning on using to save the world but failed because Gods-Damn Mannfred killed Gelt, disrupting the ritual and killing Teclis.

So if Teclis doesn't steal the Flame, no Tyrion, Incarnate of Light. No Tyrion period.

Though its worth noting, even with the Flame and Ulric, Middenheim was doomed. It was just a matter of time before Archaon conquered it. At best, they would have delayed Archaon long enough for Sigmar to rally the Empire's surviving forces and reach out to their allies so they could ride to the rescue. But that's the extremely hopeful, highly unlikely possibility.

It's also worth noting that as Teclis was stealing the Flame, Archaon was enacting a plan to crack open the gatehouses and get into the city. And if I remember correctly, in Storm of Chaos Archaon did breach the city while Ulric's Flame still burned. In the End Times he had the skaven with him, aiding in the plan to breach the city. Hell the sheer numbers Archaon had with him guaranteed that he would have taken the city eventually and extinguished the Flame.

But who could have created a new Vortex, and how, and where?

Keep in mind that the only reason why the Vortex in Ulthuan works so well is because of standing stones all over the world directing the Winds of Magic towards it, so at the very least those stones would have had to be "rerouted" to the location of a new Vortex.

And of course they had Caledor Dragontamer and the best Elf sorcerers of the age as well as aid from the Slann whom were far more numerous at that time.

So yeah, a new Vortex couldn't easily created elsewhere.

Plus the Vortex would only dampen the Daemons and weaken their magics. It would do nothing to the mortal followers of Chaos. It was so effective back then because at the time the forces of Chaos were all daemons.

Also it would me that the Incarnates would have to give up their power, costing them their greatest weapons when they needed them the most.

[Presentdent]

Some points I'll raise regarding Lizardmen (the only faction really near and dear to my heart) in relation to the snippet you posted-

* Although it hasn't been expanded on in several editions the temple city of Zlatlan is still in the Southlands and has one of the few surviving 2nd generation slann in residence. All lizardmen units are already in place there so more temple cities arriving is not something new - they already have a power base established.
* The only "resources" lizardmen actually need are their spawning pools. Their cities are pretty much self-sustaining given the slann's mastery of magic and technology on their ships/cities. They would not be focused on expanding territory, but re-interpreting or continuing on with the Great Plan (see next point).
*A somewhat obscure fact is that the Southlands Slann actually have a more intact sequence of golden plaques recording the Great Plan then their Lustrian counterparts. It would be interesting to see what the rest of the Slann would do with this newly acquired knowledge.

Thanks. I was looking for something like this. What would a 'more intact' version of the Great Plan look like?


@Akatsuki, well then. What do you suggest? I mean, we're in open territory here. We could say that the Flame was stolen, yet Middenheim managed to hold out, or we could come up with some way for another magical vortex, or any number of solutions. If you've got one, I'm all ears! This is a sticky problem, after all.

And regarding the mortal followers of Chaos, if Valten were to kill Archaon and blunt the nose of the Chaos invasion, followed by a vortex to sap its demonic power, and with Grimgor's Waaaagh! coming up its ass... I think that's enough to put an end to the invasion and see the Chaos Warlords bicker and scatter to the four winds.

[Presentdent]

The resurrection of Tyrion so he could become the Incarnate of Light. Of course the fall of Middenheim did lead to discovery of the magic mcguffin that Teclis and the Incarnates were planning on using to save the world but failed because Gods-Damn Mannfred killed Gelt, disrupting the ritual and killing Teclis.

So if Teclis doesn't steal the Flame, no Tyrion, Incarnate of Light. No Tyrion period.

Though its worth noting, even with the Flame and Ulric, Middenheim was doomed. It was just a matter of time before Archaon conquered it. At best, they would have delayed Archaon long enough for Sigmar to rally the Empire's surviving forces and reach out to their allies so they could ride to the rescue. But that's the extremely hopeful, highly unlikely possibility.

It's also worth noting that as Teclis was stealing the Flame, Archaon was enacting a plan to crack open the gatehouses and get into the city. And if I remember correctly, in Storm of Chaos Archaon did breach the city while Ulric's Flame still burned. In the End Times he had the skaven with him, aiding in the plan to breach the city. Hell the sheer numbers Archaon had with him guaranteed that he would have taken the city eventually and extinguished the Flame.



And of course they had Caledor Dragontamer and the best Elf sorcerers of the age as well as aid from the Slann whom were far more numerous at that time.

So yeah, a new Vortex couldn't easily created elsewhere.

Plus the Vortex would only dampen the Daemons and weaken their magics. It would do nothing to the mortal followers of Chaos. It was so effective back then because at the time the forces of Chaos were all daemons.

Also it would me that the Incarnates would have to give up their power, costing them their greatest weapons when they needed them the most.

Hmmm. I wish I had an End Times timeline in front of me. Valten dies at the siege of Middenheim, right? Not when the Incarnates go to take it back. I was going to say that we could let Middenheim fall and then Teclis/The Incarnates' gamble succeeds, without ****** Mannfred, and it's later reclaimed by the Empire, but we lose the epic confrontation/duel between Valten and Archaon sans Skaven killsteal.

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Hmmm. I wish I had an End Times timeline in front of me. Valten dies at the siege of Middenheim, right? Not when the Incarnates go to take it back. I was going to say that we could let Middenheim fall and then Teclis/The Incarnates' gamble succeeds, without ****** Mannfred, and it's later reclaimed by the Empire, but we lose the epic confrontation/duel between Valten and Archaon sans Skaven killsteal.

Yeah Valten died during the fall of Middenheim in Thanquol. Teclis's Gamble was the last act of the final book, by which Valten was long dead. In fact for a time Archaon had Ghal Maraz as a trophy until Karl Franz/Sigmar retook it, completely restoring Sigmar's spirit, a piece of which had gone into Valten, Sigmar's Avatar and then Ghal Maraz upon his death.

[Presentdent]

Yeah Valten died during the fall of Middenheim in Thanquol. Teclis's Gamble was the last act of the final book, by which Valten was long dead. In fact for a time Archaon had Ghal Maraz as a trophy until Karl Franz/Sigmar retook it, completely restoring Sigmar's spirit, a piece of which had gone into Valten, Sigmar's Avatar and then Ghal Maraz upon his death.

Thanks for clearing that up. Anyway, let's get the creative juices flowing -- how do you think we can cut our Gordian Knot of how to resolve End Times and be rid of the Incarnates in post-end times?

[Horus38]

Thanks. I was looking for something like this. What would a 'more intact' version of the Great Plan look like?

No problem. The Great Plan lists future events that should/will come to pass so it's hard to speculate on what the sequence would look like.

Prior to the End Times this was the only foreshadowing we had of the Lizardmen's intentions: "Lord Mazdamundi announced that he had deciphered the meaning of the plaques found on the Turtle Isles, saying they were composed mere days before the Great Catastrophe and their message was incontrovertible. They stated the Great Plan could not proceed until all the corupting elements that were sure to be introduced by the looming disaster were eliminated. Foremost amongst these would be the followers of Chaos. All such creatures, the plaques claimed, must be expunged and, as Lord Mazdamundi pointed out, anything less would be a failure of their duties to the Old Ones. The true power of Chaos was stirring in the world once more, and the Lizardmen must rise to meet it. Those younger races that would not join them against the common foe must be considered enemies. A time of vast battles, Lord Mazdamundi pronounced, was at hand." - p. 20 8th edition LM army book

[Presentdent]

No problem. The Great Plan lists future events that should/will come to pass so it's hard to speculate on what the sequence would look like.

Prior to the End Times this was the only foreshadowing we had of the Lizardmen's intentions: "Lord Mazdamundi announced that he had deciphered the meaning of the plaques found on the Turtle Isles, saying they were composed mere days before the Great Catastrophe and their message was incontrovertible. They stated the Great Plan could not proceed until all the corupting elements that were sure to be introduced by the looming disaster were eliminated. Foremost amongst these would be the followers of Chaos. All such creatures, the plaques claimed, must be expunged and, as Lord Mazdamundi pointed out, anything less would be a failure of their duties to the Old Ones. The true power of Chaos was stirring in the world once more, and the Lizardmen must rise to meet it. Those younger races that would not join them against the common foe must be considered enemies. A time of vast battles, Lord Mazdamundi pronounced, was at hand." - p. 20 8th edition LM army book

So, landing in the Southlands/Nehekhara, the Lizards just plan to continue fighting Chaos -- first dealing with Skaven and the Undead in Nehekhara and Araby

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Thanks for clearing that up. Anyway, let's get the creative juices flowing -- how do you think we can cut our Gordian Knot of how to resolve End Times and be rid of the Incarnates in post-end times?

I got my copies of Thanquol and Archaon the last two End Times books loaned out to a friend and I can't quite remember the nature of the ritual beyond that it required all the Incarnates, or at least the Eight Winds. Caradryan, the second Incarnate of Fire had died beforehand but Teclis was able to snare Aqshy before it could go into anyone else. Then Grimgor and Gelt died and Teclis wasn't able to contain all three Winds, obliterating him and destroying the ritual and leading to the world's destruction.

The problem with getting rid of the Incarnates is that they are the lodestones of each of Wind of Magic. Kill an Incarnate and the Wind flies free until it binds with someone else. You'd have to recreate the Vortex to be rid of them. And well... none of them are really in a position to attempt to recreate it, if there's anyone left with the knowledge to recreate the Vortex.

Certainly Nagash isn't going to agree to relinquishing Shyish so you'd need the others to keep him in check. Especially with Sigmar, only man Nagash fears. When he first met with the Incarnate and saw Karl Franz/Sigmar, Nagash shuttered.

And honestly I don't think they should be gotten rid of. Rather they should serve as the ones leading the rebuilding of the world and protecting the survivors from Chaos, Nagash, Skaven, Greenskins and whatever other threats remain. After just because Archaon is dead, doesn't mean that the forces of Chaos aren't still out there. Certainly the Everchosen's vast host will fracture but that just means that there will be countless smaller armies and warbands pillaging and destroying things, to say nothing of those Chaos armies not in the Empire.

Incarnate can't be everywhere but they can protect their territories from all these threats as their people rebuild.

[AkatsukiLeader13]

So, landing in the Southlands/Nehekhara, the Lizards just plan to continue fighting Chaos -- first dealing with Skaven and the Undead in Nehekhara and Araby

Actually Nagash emptied Nehekhara after he devoured Usirian and defeated Settra. There's no one left in Nehekhara. Though the Tomb Kings are against Chaos and has fought Chaos countless times.

That said if Settra manages to liberate a bunch of Tomb Kings from Nagash* and reclaim Nehekhara, they won't tolerate the Lizardmen expanding beyond the jungles and into their lands.

*Which I don't real think is possible simply due to the fact Nagash is in charge of the Nehekhara Underworld and was quite easily able to stop the Liche Priests from raising their dead again.

[Presentdent]

I got my copies of Thanquol and Archaon the last two End Times books loaned out to a friend and I can't quite remember the nature of the ritual beyond that it required all the Incarnates, or at least the Eight Winds. Caradryan, the second Incarnate of Fire had died beforehand but Teclis was able to snare Aqshy before it could go into anyone else. Then Grimgor and Gelt died and Teclis wasn't able to contain all three Winds, obliterating him and destroying the ritual and leading to the world's destruction.

The problem with getting rid of the Incarnates is that they are the lodestones of each of Wind of Magic. Kill an Incarnate and the Wind flies free until it binds with someone else. You'd have to recreate the Vortex to be rid of them. And well... none of them are really in a position to attempt to recreate it, if there's anyone left with the knowledge to recreate the Vortex.

Certainly Nagash isn't going to agree to relinquishing Shyish so you'd need the others to keep him in check. Especially with Sigmar, only man Nagash fears. When he first met with the Incarnate and saw Karl Franz/Sigmar, Nagash shuttered.

And honestly I don't think they should be gotten rid of. Rather they should serve as the ones leading the rebuilding of the world and protecting the survivors from Chaos, Nagash, Skaven, Greenskins and whatever other threats remain. After just because Archaon is dead, doesn't mean that the forces of Chaos aren't still out there. Certainly the Everchosen's vast host will fracture but that just means that there will be countless smaller armies and warbands pillaging and destroying things, to say nothing of those Chaos armies not in the Empire.

Incarnate can't be everywhere but they can protect their territories from all these threats as their people rebuild.

I dunno man, a lot of folks tend to think the Incarnates are lame, and they seem almost too powerful to preserve a status quo after the the End Times. I say we take it in a different direction -- while Valten is fighting with Archaon at the siege of Middenheim and Teclis is dicking around with all the winds, one of the surviving Slaan from Zlatlan suddenly summons Teclis (hell, if Teclis can teleport Grimgor from Nippon, a skilled Slaan can do it). As Horus pointed out, Zlatlan had older plaques of the Old Ones' designs. One could imagine that Teclis screwing with the winds of magic has alerted the Slaan to his scheming, and also afforded them a new opportunity (had they not decided to flee the world), and try to create a new Vortex with the help of the Incarnates -- taking the steam out of the Chaos invasion, and allowing for victory in the Empire. Perhaps a little skubby, but it averts end times.

Regarding Nagash -- Why not kill him off, along with Archaon? I've not found a satisfactory way how, though earlier I suggested having Nagash and Archaon kill each other -- and there was resistance.

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Oh and here's a break down of the chapters of the first three End Times books and when they occurried. As I said, I've loaned out my copies of the last two to a friend.

Each chapter spans a specific timeframe and plenty of them overlap, happening in the same time just in different places.

Autumn 2523 - Summer 2524
Nagash Chapter 1-Arkhan and Gods-Damn Mannfred's journeys to collect the last relics to restore Nagash.

Autumn 2524
Nagash Chapter 2-The ritual to restore Nagash.

Spring 2524 - Winter 2524
Nagash Chapter 3-Neferata's journey through the World's Edge Mountains to join up with Nagash.

Summer 2524 - Summer 2525
Nagash Chapter 4-Everything that's going on in the Empire during the beginning of the End Times. The emergence of Valten, the rise and fall of Gelt and his Auric Bastion, Vlad first coming to the Empire's aid, Karl Franz's disappearance fighting the Blood Dragons that had fallen to Khorne.

Winter 2524 - Autumn 2525
Nagash Chapter 5-Nagash's campaign against the Tomb Kings

Spring 2525
Glottkin Chapter 1-The Glottkin travel south and Marienburg falls.

Summer 2525
Glottkin Chapter 2-Gutrot crushes the Forest Goblins of Drakwald as his army heads south for Altdorf.
Glottkin Chapter 3-Epidemius and the Maggoth Riders destroy Talabheim.

Autumn 2525
Glottkin Chapter 4-The Fall of Altdorf.

Winter 2524 - Winter 2525
Khaine Chapter 1-Malekith invades Ulthuan, Araloth's journeys to Nurgle's Garden to rescue Shallya, Tyrion draws the Widowmaker and Malekith becomes Phoenix King.

Winter 2525 - Winter 2526
Khaine Chapter 2-The Elf Civil War ends, the remaining Winds are loosed, Ulthuan sinks and the Elves are united.

Once I get my other two books back, which should be in a couple more days, I'll try to lay out a more detail timeline if you want it. Though don't expect any exact dates as they only mention seasonal and yearly timeframe on the first page of each chapter which I've written out right here.

[Presentdent]

Oh and here's a break down of the chapters of the first three End Times books and when they occurried. As I said, I've loaned out my copies of the last two to a friend.

Each chapter spans a specific timeframe and plenty of them overlap, happening in the same time just in different places.

Autumn 2523 - Summer 2524
Nagash Chapter 1-Arkhan and Gods-Damn Mannfred's journeys to collect the last relics to restore Nagash.

Autumn 2524
Nagash Chapter 2-The ritual to restore Nagash.

Spring 2524 - Winter 2524
Nagash Chapter 3-Neferata's journey through the World's Edge Mountains to join up with Nagash.

Summer 2524 - Summer 2525
Nagash Chapter 4-Everything that's going on in the Empire during the beginning of the End Times. The emergence of Valten, the rise and fall of Gelt and his Auric Bastion, Vlad first coming to the Empire's aid, Karl Franz's disappearance fighting the Blood Dragons that had fallen to Khorne.

Winter 2524 - Autumn 2525
Nagash Chapter 5-Nagash's campaign against the Tomb Kings

Spring 2525
Glottkin Chapter 1-The Glottkin travel south and Marienburg falls.

Summer 2525
Glottkin Chapter 2-Gutrot crushes the Forest Goblins of Drakwald as his army heads south for Altdorf.
Glottkin Chapter 3-Epidemius and the Maggoth Riders destroy Talabheim.

Autumn 2525
Glottkin Chapter 4-The Fall of Altdorf.

Winter 2524 - Winter 2525
Khaine Chapter 1-Malekith invades Ulthuan, Araloth's journeys to Nurgle's Garden to rescue Shallya, Tyrion draws the Widowmaker and Malekith becomes Phoenix King.

Winter 2525 - Winter 2526
Khaine Chapter 2-The Elf Civil War ends, the remaining Winds are loosed, Ulthuan sinks and the Elves are united.

Once I get my other two books back, which should be in a couple more days, I'll try to lay out a more detail timeline if you want it. Though don't expect any exact dates as they only mention seasonal and yearly timeframe on the first page of each chapter which I've written out right here.

Exact dates are by no means required. Just a nice outline like you've provided is great.

I never bought the End Times books, myself, as I was saving for Nagash... but then started seeing the writing on the wall.

[AkatsukiLeader13]

I dunno man, a lot of folks tend to think the Incarnates are lame, and they seem almost too powerful to preserve a status quo after the the End Times. I say we take it in a different direction -- while Valten is fighting with Archaon at the siege of Middenheim and Teclis is dicking around with all the winds, one of the surviving Slaan from Zlatlan suddenly summons Teclis (hell, if Teclis can teleport Grimgor from Nippon, a skilled Slaan can do it). As Horus pointed out, Zlatlan had older plaques of the Old Ones' designs. One could imagine that Teclis screwing with the winds of magic has alerted the Slaan to his scheming, and also afforded them a new opportunity (had they not decided to flee the world), and try to create a new Vortex with the help of the Incarnates -- taking the steam out of the Chaos invasion, and allowing for victory in the Empire. Perhaps a little skubby, but it averts end times.

Regarding Nagash -- Why not kill him off, along with Archaon? I've not found a satisfactory way how, though earlier I suggested having Nagash and Archaon kill each other -- and there was resistance.

The problem with Nagash is A) he never stays dead and B) because of the things he did in the first book, he's become the linchpin of at least the human Underworld. If he dies for good... that's going to have a negative effect on the Underworld since Usirian and Morr (whom might be Usirian under a different name) are gone and Nagash had taken control of the Underworld.

He also unknowingly killed the Elf Goddess of the Dead when tore Shyish from the Vortex. Though she was replaced by an elf-turned-vampire that Lileath chose to replace said goddess for the pocket world she had created for a ton of elf souls, to protect for a time from Chaos.

By his own actions he's made himself vital to the world and potentially unkillable.

Also Teclis was able to teleport the Incarnates along with a portion of their armies by sacrificing the last elf god, Lileath. He didn't just teleport Grimgor, he teleported Grimgor and a chuck of his Beast-WAAAGH!!! there.

As for your suggestion, I don't remember the specific timeline, but the fall of Middenheim happened before the discovery of the artifact and Teclis's attempt to save the world with the Incarnates. In fact, the artifact was found because Middenheim fell and Archaon wanted to use it to destroy the world.

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Exact dates are by no means required. Just a nice outline like you've provided is great.

I never bought the End Times books, myself, as I was saving for Nagash... but then started seeing the writing on the wall.

Well if you want a fairly comprehensive, if long, discussion about each End Times book, at least the story books anyway, Garagehammer did podcasts on each book, several in the case of Nagash and Khaine.

[Presentdent]

Well if you want a fairly comprehensive, if long, discussion about each End Times book, at least the story books anyway, Garagehammer did podcasts on each book, several in the case of Nagash and Khaine.

Tad too long for my tastes, but I might be tempted to take a look later.

Regarding the Incarnates, I'm tempted to take them out altogether, as they were rather skubtastic, and Valten was on the verge of beating Archaon, anyway, prior to the Kill-Steal. But I'll need to think about this a little longer.