Workshop Unofficial 9th Edition Fluff?

[Presentdent]

Added a Skaven entry.

could use more input on Dorfs, Orcs, and Elves (though I've gotten some input on elfs already)

[dwarf_zepplin]

Thanquolpocalypse

You just made my day.

[Presentdent]

Was trying to figure out an elegant way to put it, then I realized that Thanquol probably wouldn't bother to do so himself.

The Thanquolpocalypse will be seven-- no-no, thirteen times better and bloodier than Archaon's End Times! Yes-yes. Big-bad warrior think he's the favorite of the Gods. Pah!

Edit:

Cesar de Quart, if you can edit your map to change "Volkmar" to "Huss," I'll add it to the first post as part of the official unofficial AU canon. Lol.

[AkatsukiLeader13]

The most support has been for a point of Divergence mid-Thanquol, with the verminlord not killing Valten, but rather Valten killing Archaon (and dying, himself, in the process). However, there will be little 'points of divergence' throughout the entire story, in that the Skaven attack won't be as successful as it was -- for example, there will be survivors in Tilea, Estalia, and Araby. Nuln doesn't get blasted off-screen. But the main point of divergence remains an Empire victory at the First Battle of Middenheim. In addition, while asking some Skaven/Lizardmen players, I've been reminded of the prophecy that Thanquol will do more harm to his allies than to his enemies (and this is why the Lizards didn't kill him when they had the chance). End Times seemed to have forgotten this. Thus, a suggestion was that Thanquol somehow have a role in averting the End Times, like killing Screech Verminking when he's in the limelight (thus saving Valten) and turning on Archaon's invasion, bleeding them a little, before running away into the Mountains of Mourn to scheme for his on Thanquolpocalypse without dumb Everchosen or Verminlord sneak-fiends taking the credit.

A) Fall of Nuln was an entire chapter of Thanquol and one of the few things to actually involve the title character. It didn't happen off screen.

B) While Valten was killed by a Verminlord, it was a Verminlord Deceiver, not Screech Verminking. Having Thanquol banish Screech, as he is a daemon, will not affect that.

C) With the way Screech plays Thanquol along with the deference and fear skavens have towards the Verminlords, I don't think its all that possible that Thanquol would betray him. After all these are beings that can't be tricked and smell lies. And Screech is the greatest of them.

And I got my last two End Times books back and I was wrong. Teclis wasn't enacting a ritual with the warp artifact, Archaon was. Basically he was creating a rift that would pull the area into the Realm of Chaos but then tear apart the rest of the world. Teclis was trying to seal the rift with the power of the Eight Winds.

But anyway I've been thinking about this setting for some time and I think having things set immediately after an AU End Times is not the best idea. Just looking at the Empire and what it went through, even in a reduced version, suffered horribly. The Empire is going to be spending years rebuilding, likely focusing on the less damaged south, where Nuln stands while in all likelihood the northern half will be overrun with Beastmen and Chaos warbands. Even if Middenheim stands, it will likely be largely on its own. The surviving armies are going to be in tatters and not really in a state to launch any real campaign to drive the survivors of Archaon's huge army.

Rather I think it should be set several centuries afterward so that it will give them all a time to rebuild their devastated civilizations. While they're not as great as they once were, the various civilizations are now beginning to expand outward, reclaiming lost territory and driving back the lingering darkness.

With the Incarnates, most of them survived. Grimgor died and maybe Gelt while Ungrim never died so he remained Incarnate of Fire and survived. With only one or two Incarnates dying, Teclis survives to seal the rift or better yet if there are some conscious Slann around that sense what Teclis is doing, aid him in it, taking a measure of the load of him. As that is happening Sigmar strikes down Archaon, ending the Everchosen. Afterwards they went their separate ways and led the rebuilding that followed. However between then and the present day, they have all disappeared.

Nagash, bitter over the loss of his chance at surpassing the Chaos Gods, retreated into the Black Pyramid, leaving the surviving Mortachs to rule in his place. Eventually the Black Pyramid flew off to parts unknown. Without Nagash, the surviving Mortachs when their own ways. Vlad, or perhaps Isabella, took back Sylvania and claimed status as Elector Count in the Empire, which Sigmar did recognize them but generally the Empire isn't fond of them and Sylvania. Khalida rose up against Neferata and led the surviving Tomb Kings back to Nehekhara. Neferata herself has disappeared into the shadows of the Empire, rebuilding her vast spy network. Arkhan, seemingly no longer connected to Nagash and for the first time in ages is unsure what he should do, has become a wanderer. Krell... well I'm not sure what to do with Krell right now.

With Sigmar and the Empire, Nuln became the capital again with Sigmar of course as Emperor. And like I said, they simply don't have enough men to retake the northern regions. Instead he calls for the survivors in the north to retreat to the south. Some do but many, unhappy with the idea of leaving their homes refuse to. Todbringer's bastard son, who wasn't at Middenheim when it fell, retook the city which had been largely abandoned by that point. Its since become an independent bastion in an otherwise wild and lawless region. But bitter over what happened to them and the Empire 'abandoning' them, resulting in a stubborn, defiant people that want nothing to do with the Empire. Ulric is still worshipped though all that remains of the God currently is a spark of his power that is passed from Graf to Graf, with the reiging Graf committing ritual suicide to pass the piece of their God on to their heir. Ulric is slowly recovering his power but he's still a far cry from what he once was.

In the south, the Empire has been rebuilding. Originally they retreated to the River Aver while maintaining a chain of forts and castles in Stirland and southern Reikland as a first line of defense. After the first century they expanded north, reclaiming those regions while establishing new lines between the Rivers Stir and Talabec. Since then they've expanded again, reclaiming Altdorf and Talabheim, though both cities are currently a pale shadow of what they once were, and first discovering that Middenheim stands once more.

Sigmar himself has, like his fellow Incarnates, disappeared recently, leaving behind Ghal Maraz and no clear successor. Insert whatever claimants here, though I wouldn't include Vlad if he's around. He can be involved in the succession crisis but wouldn't have him as a claimant, rather someone pulling the strings behind one of the claimants.

I have some stuff for the Elves but its getting late here and I'm pretty tired so I'll post it tomorrow.

[Kakapo42]

An interesting idea, but as far as I'm concerned any background should be reset to as it was in the 8th edition rulebook and left that way, with hobbyists then being free to develop it however they wish. I am a very strong proponent of the idea that the Warhammer World is a setting, not a story - there is no main 'plot', simply a world in which plots and stories take place in. The ET series has effectively turned me into a 'background anarchist', and the way I see it an important thing to take away from the ET series, especially the last few parts, is that no one authority should have the power to advance the Warhammer setting for everyone else. Indeed, the abandonment of the Warhammer World in favour of... whatever AoS is supposed to be, seems to me to be a golden opportunity to return the traditional Warhammer setting into the 'blank canvas' it was before the ET series came.

Incidentally, I actually came up with a whole lot background advancement myself (which I largely keep to myself, and am still debating about sharing on the internet since I'm not sure what the demand for it would be), though I'm not sure how useful it would be here since it's based largely around my own armies' background (I'm also a big believer that player armies should be the catalysts for background change - if you want to see a province of The Empire razed then build up an army and raze it yourself!) and perhaps more importantly takes place instead of the ET background rather than after it, with the point of divergence being shortly before ET: Nagash.

[Presentdent]

An interesting idea, but as far as I'm concerned any background should be reset to as it was in the 8th edition rulebook and left that way, with hobbyists then being free to develop it however they wish. I am a very strong proponent of the idea that the Warhammer World is a setting, not a story - there is no main 'plot', simply a world in which plots and stories take place in. The ET series has effectively turned me into a 'background anarchist', and the way I see it an important thing to take away from the ET series, especially the last few parts, is that no one authority should have the power to advance the Warhammer setting for everyone else. Indeed, the abandonment of the Warhammer World in favour of... whatever AoS is supposed to be, seems to me to be a golden opportunity to return the traditional Warhammer setting into the 'blank canvas' it was before the ET series came.

Incidentally, I actually came up with a whole lot background advancement myself (which I largely keep to myself, and am still debating about sharing on the internet since I'm not sure what the demand for it would be), though I'm not sure how useful it would be here since it's based largely around my own armies' background (I'm also a big believer that player armies should be the catalysts for background change - if you want to see a province of The Empire razed then build up an army and raze it yourself!) and perhaps more importantly takes place instead of the ET background rather than after it, with the point of divergence being shortly before ET: Nagash.

This began as a simple thought-experiment amongst friends, so I feel you. One suggested I put it online and get more input, and thus this thread was born. Been getting a lot of people (in and out of the thread) sending me suggestions, which has been fun. The point of this is (if it becomes popular enough) to provide a post-End Times setting for fluffy campaigns between friends. Yes, Warhammer Fantasy is a setting, but as it was, Karl Franz was always the Emperor. The Dwarfs were always on the verge of extinction. Etc. etc. This is just something fun for those who want to run Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay or Battles campaigns in a homebrewed and crowdsourced setting including parts of the End Times.

[Col.Beefeater]

An interesting thought I had in response to trying to fluff an army of Stormcast Eternals for use with 8th Edition rules:

What if as a result of Teclis/Nagash/Incarnates disrupting Archaon's ritual and saving the old world, the 8 realms of magic or w/e they're called in Age of Sigmar still come into existence as alternate realities. This accomplishes 3 things:
1) Allows background/justification for using new models with 8th edition. Where did these Fiery Dwarfs come from? Why the realm of Aqshy of course.
2) Greatly expands the setting to allow blank spaces for players to fluff out their own armies.
3) Creates a distraction of 8 new shinies for the Chaos Gods to play with and corrupt, allowing for some re-established stability and redevelopment of the devastated old world.

[Presentdent]

An interesting thought I had in response to trying to fluff an army of Stormcast Eternals for use with 8th Edition rules:

What if as a result of Teclis/Nagash/Incarnates disrupting Archaon's ritual and saving the old world, the 8 realms of magic or w/e they're called in Age of Sigmar still come into existence as alternate realities. This accomplishes 3 things:
1) Allows background/justification for using new models with 8th edition. Where did these Fiery Dwarfs come from? Why the realm of Aqshy of course.
2) Greatly expands the setting to allow blank spaces for players to fluff out their own armies.
3) Creates a distraction of 8 new shinies for the Chaos Gods to play with and corrupt, allowing for some re-established stability and redevelopment of the devastated old world.

The reason this hasnt really been discussed isn't that this isn't a good idea. Rather, most of the people I'm playing with want as little to do with Age of Sigmar as possible. The incarnates, for some, are even a step too far into skub territory. This is an experiment in what "moving the setting forward" could look like without radically changing the setting so as to be unrecognizable.

[CrystalSphere]

I am one of those who despise the idea of the incarnates, they made no sense with the established background - like the gods actively talking with people and doing stuff. In comparison the Storm of Chaos was way more in line with the rules of the setting, instead of end times which went all marvel on the lore.

Ideas that were fine by me in the end times: return of nagash, archaon launching his great invasion, ulthuan sinking and the true judgement of asuryan being discovered, grimgor leading an uprising of greeskins agaisnt the chaos dwarfs, skaven coming out in the open from skavenblight and hording Tilea/Estalia, the green knight returning and the identity of the lady revealed, etc.

So as you can see i did like the end times for advancing the setting, but several of the concepts seemed hamfisted in order to give some link or fore-word to the Age of Sigmar setting.

[Presentdent]

I am one of those who despise the idea of the incarnates, they made no sense with the established background - like the gods actively talking with people and doing stuff. In comparison the Storm of Chaos was way more in line with the rules of the setting, instead of end times which went all marvel on the lore.

Ideas that were fine by me in the end times: return of nagash, archaon launching his great invasion, ulthuan sinking and the true judgement of asuryan being discovered, grimgor leading an uprising of greeskins agaisnt the chaos dwarfs, skaven coming out in the open from skavenblight and hording Tilea/Estalia, the green knight returning and the identity of the lady revealed, etc.

So as you can see i did like the end times for advancing the setting, but several of the concepts seemed hamfisted in order to give some link or fore-word to the Age of Sigmar setting.

You got any specific suggestions for the Post-End Times world? I'm trying to figure out what to do with Orcs/Ogres/Grimgor. Also take a look at the front page if you want to see some of the ideas that have been pitched so far.

[Razios]

I am one of those who despise the idea of the incarnates, they made no sense with the established background - like the gods actively talking with people and doing stuff. In comparison the Storm of Chaos was way more in line with the rules of the setting, instead of end times which went all marvel on the lore.

Like Valten? or Ariel and Orion? the god where always there, and in fact outside the incarnate(who are not gods, just really overpower individuals) and Ulric it stay the same.

And again is hard to stop end times without chaing the status quo, and im saying really: no just killing the old cast but wipe outfaction, it is the point.

Im own idea is that Sigmar manage to make and alternate timeline after the destruction of the world, with all of them disapearing, chaos learn this and furious(after all, who denied somethig to them?) atack but sigmar creat the stormcast to driven back, this will explain why chaos dosent conquer everything: the incarnate in the other realm are kept them busy.

or so is my take

[Presentdent]

Finally got a suggestion for the Orcs. As people have expressed a desire to see Chaos take a back seat and regroup after being the main threat for so long, and Nagash is temporarily out of the picture, could use Grimgor as the "mounting threat." After breaking the Great Bastion, hanging the Chaos Dwarves from its mighty walls and conquering northern Cathay, he next planned to land a fleet in Nippon in the fashion of Kublai Khan. Rather than a monsoon, Eshin assassins sabotaged Grimgor's fleet before it could land. After bumming around in Northern Cathay, loving the size of the armies coming from the heavy population centers of southern Cathay and how many humies he gets to kill. But eventually, the Orcs grow bored, and the largest Waaagh! the Old World has ever seen, including ogres, making their way towards the World's Edge Mountains.

[CrystalSphere]

For Karl Franz i agree without doubt that he must die, preferably in a brutal and demoralising fashion, he was a statesman in the old background not a warrior, so he getting crushed in combat seems fitting. It also forces the empire to elect a new emperor so the status queo is broken no matter what.

I would prefer to see Grimgor die in a flamboyant fashion, that was his style - in order to make room for new orc characters. He could first break the power of the chaos dwarfs over their greenskins slaves, then go to fight Archaon and kill him just like in the SoC (i liked the idea of a greenskin saving the world, instead of Sigmar´s lightning posessing Karl Franz), but his wounds are mortal so he perishes. He could become a greenskin legend like Azhag or Grom, i think his story needs to be concluded - he was very brutish but not very cunning, so maybe Wurzagg creates a cult saying that the "chosen of Gork" will come back in the future.

For Kislev i don´t see the sustainability of having them hold to their lands agaisnt chaos, i would rather see chaos expands from the north so it goes further south. The frontier of the empire would step back, and the kislevites could settle in Nordland or Middenland and simply join the empire (maintaining their traditional rulers and stuff). I think Kislev could fit a good spot for the "non-chaos norse" that many people seem to want (the ungol horse archers were kurgan, so add a tribe of norse to the kislevite roster - to represent those norse who aren´t chaotic but have joined with kislev). They could worship Ulric while minimally acknowledging Sigmar, thus creating some tension with the rest of the empire - there could also be separatist ideas among the disgruntled.

Also in general i don´t want to see chaos losing ground and becoming a minor threat - if anything i would prefer a post apocalyptic setting, when the forces of order achieved a pyrrhic victory but they lost a lot of land, so there is a large area between the wastes and the empire who is made up by chaotic kingdoms - instead of having the chaosmen come out of the desert wastes, let them have their lands with their rulers and stuff. Sort of like a chaotic border princes.

[Presentdent]

For Karl Franz i agree without doubt that he must die, preferably in a brutal and demoralising fashion, he was a statesman in the old background not a warrior, so he getting crushed in combat seems fitting. It also forces the empire to elect a new emperor so the status queo is broken no matter what.

I would prefer to see Grimgor die in a flamboyant fashion, that was his style - in order to make room for new orc characters. He could first break the power of the chaos dwarfs over their greenskins slaves, then go to fight Archaon and kill him just like in the SoC (i liked the idea of a greenskin saving the world, instead of Sigmar´s lightning posessing Karl Franz), but his wounds are mortal so he perishes. He could become a greenskin legend like Azhag or Grom, i think his story needs to be concluded - he was very brutish but not very cunning, so maybe Wurzagg creates a cult saying that the "chosen of Gork" will come back in the future.

For Kislev i don´t see the sustainability of having them hold to their lands agaisnt chaos, i would rather see chaos expands from the north so it goes further south. The frontier of the empire would step back, and the kislevites could settle in Nordland or Middenland and simply join the empire (maintaining their traditional rulers and stuff). I think Kislev could fit a good spot for the "non-chaos norse" that many people seem to want (the ungol horse archers were kurgan, so add a tribe of norse to the kislevite roster - to represent those norse who aren´t chaotic but have joined with kislev). They could worship Ulric while minimally acknowledging Sigmar, thus creating some tension with the rest of the empire - there could also be separatist ideas among the disgruntled.

Also in general i don´t want to see chaos losing ground and becoming a minor threat - if anything i would prefer a post apocalyptic setting, when the forces of order achieved a pyrrhic victory but they lost a lot of land, so there is a large area between the wastes and the empire who is made up by chaotic kingdoms - instead of having the chaosmen come out of the desert wastes, let them have their lands with their rulers and stuff. Sort of like a chaotic border princes.

Do me a favor and take a look at the first post and descriptions of the races -- let me know what you think of that.

[AkatsukiLeader13]

For Karl Franz i agree without doubt that he must die, preferably in a brutal and demoralising fashion, he was a statesman in the old background not a warrior, so he getting crushed in combat seems fitting. It also forces the empire to elect a new emperor so the status queo is broken no matter what.

Expect if you keep portions of the End Times as canon, Karl Franz died during the Fall of Altdorf. What rose up after he fell was more Sigmar than Karl Franz.

And what made Karl Franz great wasn't that he was a great statesman, its that he was a great statesman as well as a great warrior and general. I don't know about the earliest editions he was introduced in but in the last couple he's become the triple threat of statesman, warrior and general. One of his early accomplishments as Emperor was to lead the Empire to victory in the most recent Battle of Black Fire Pass, singlehandedly slaying the Orc Warlord.

And of the great thinks about the End Times was how they showed in Nagash and Glottkin just how great Karl Franz was in all three areas.

To diminish him by making him only a great statesman is a poor decision because it diminishes the loss of Karl Franz. In over two thousand five hundred years of existence, he is one of the greatest Emperors the Empire ever had.

As for Grimgor, his death in the End Times was pretty epic and over the top and a call back to SoC. Basically he was out east breaking **** off screen with his Beast-Waaagh! when the spell was enacted to summon the Incarnates and their armies to Archaon's location, summoning him with them. He ended up near Malekith and after the two finished fighting the Chaos forces around them, when Grimgor was about to smash the elf forces too, Malekith tricked him by surrendering and telling him that Archaon was claiming to be the greatest. Naturally Grimgor didn't like the idea of some Chaos humie claiming he was the greatest and he ran off after Archaon with Da Immortalz in tow. When he found Archaon the two fought a vicious duel. It ended with Grimgor headbutting Archaon, shattering the Eye of Sheerian contained in his helmet. This royally pissed off Archaon who released the mad daemon within his sword, slaying Grimgor. But Da Immortalz, seeing their leader slain, went into the frenzy and threw themselves into Archaon's forces, slaying scores of them before being wiped out.

A pretty epic end for Da Once 'N Future Git.

And once again, I feel I should point out that as interesting as it would be to have this Edition start after an AU End Times is that most of the forces are spent and their kingdoms broken, in particular the human nations, the elves and dwarfs. They won't be much of a state to do much of anything for some time. Hence my suggestion to advance the setting forward a century or two, to allow them time to rebuild while maintaining Chaos as major threat. Most of the world is overrun with Chaos warbands, greenskins, mindless undead, Beastmen, etc. As result of their heavy losses in the End Times, the Order races have all retreated to smaller, more defensible enclaves to rebuild their strength until the time that they can expand and retake what they had lost.

[Razios]

Also in general i don´t want to see chaos losing ground and becoming a minor threat - if anything i would prefer a post apocalyptic setting, when the forces of order achieved a pyrrhic victory but they lost a lot of land, so there is a large area between the wastes and the empire who is made up by chaotic kingdoms - instead of having the chaosmen come out of the desert wastes, let them have their lands with their rulers and stuff. Sort of like a chaotic border princes.

Thing is....chaos dosent cared a single wit about kindoms, only chaos dwarft does that and barely, maruderts wants to win and become deamon princes, not rule land they don care about it.

Also you are describing a post-archeron type of victory, which it dosent roll so well because they empire lack to exist by that point.

And what made Karl Franz great wasn't that he was a great statesman, its that he was a great statesman as well as a great warrior and general. I don't know about the earliest editions he was introduced in but in the last couple he's become the triple threat of statesman, warrior and general. One of his early accomplishments as Emperor was to lead the Empire to victory in the most recent Battle of Black Fire Pass, singlehandedly slaying the Orc Warlord.

Indeed, also is refresing to see a leader who is something else to just the "biggest badass ever" finubar was but he dosent get any rules(hell, its thanks to age of reckoning we get something out of him)

And once again, I feel I should point out that as interesting as it would be to have this Edition start after an AU End Times is that most of the forces are spent and their kingdoms broken, in particular the human nations, the elves and dwarfs. They won't be much of a state to do much of anything for some time. Hence my suggestion to advance the setting forward a century or two, to allow them time to rebuild while maintaining Chaos as major threat. Most of the world is overrun with Chaos warbands, greenskins, mindless undead, Beastmen, etc. As result of their heavy losses in the End Times, the Order races have all retreated to smaller, more defensible enclaves to rebuild their strength until the time that they can expand and retake what they had lost.

Them....why bother with this and just jump into age of sigmar? after all the world will get so wipe up it will barely look the same, unless you made a mad max style of game

[Presentdent]

Thing is....chaos dosent cared a single wit about kindoms, only chaos dwarft does that and barely, maruderts wants to win and become deamon princes, not rule land they don care about it.

Also you are describing a post-archeron type of victory, which it dosent roll so well because they empire lack to exist by that point.



Indeed, also is refresing to see a leader who is something else to just the "biggest badass ever" finubar was but he dosent get any rules(hell, its thanks to age of reckoning we get something out of him)



Them....why bother with this and just jump into age of sigmar? after all the world will get so wipe up it will barely look the same, unless you made a mad max style of game

Which is why I'm not exactly using Akasutsi's suggestions. Most people don't want anything to do with the Incarnates, anyway. The point of Divergence will be Valten's triumph over Archaon -- though the true hero will Thanquol, who couldn't bear the fact he wasn't in the spotlight and nuked a large portion of the Chaos army.

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Which is why I'm not exactly using Akasutsi's suggestions. Most people don't want anything to do with the Incarnates, anyway. The point of Divergence will be Valten's triumph over Archaon -- though the true hero will Thanquol, who couldn't bear the fact he wasn't in the spotlight and nuked a large portion of the Chaos army.

Which is why I've been trying to remove the Incarnates without brushing them off. The big problem with is Nagash and his revival. Again, when he rose he tore out Shyish from the Vortex, weakening both the Vortex and the various Underworlds. By the end of his book, he has effectively taken over the human Underworld and become a God in his own right. And that was before he had bound Shyish to himself.

There was a good reason that all the other Incarnates* considered Nagash the second greatest threat to the world. Worse, this ET resurrection removed the curse of the Fellblade which had made his physical form progressively weaker each time he was resurrected.

*Well save for Grimgor as he wasn't there at the time.

And it would be even worse if the Incarnates were stripped of their power as it wouldn't hurt Nagash quite as much as the rest of them as his connection to Shyish would still be strong and with all the dead cluttering the world, he'd have an easy time raising vast legions of undead to overwhelm the already diminished and bloodied forces of Order. The other Incarnates can keep him in line, especially Sigmar, the only man he fears. At best his physical body gets destroyed in the End Times and it delays him for a time but with his control over the human Underworld, his surviving Mortarchs and their control over Sylvania, its only a matter of time before the Undead start looking at their weakened neighbours and think "MINE!".

Oh and there's Arkhan too, who's spirit is so heavily tied to Nagash that the End Times, particularly the novels and short stories, has Arkhan question whether he has free will or is merely a sliver of Nagash. If he's kicking around post-ET than he could become a voice for Nagash in the world.

And again, I have to stress the suggestion of not having this set immediately after an AU End Times because as it stands now, the Empire, the Dwarfs, Elves and Lizardmen aren't in a state to do much more than bunker down and rebuild their strength. In particular the losses the Dwarfs and Elves received devastated them. More so than the Empire, they need time to rebuild.

And it ignores the fact that Archaon has a legions of followers and daemons. Even if he dies and his vast army splinters, its basically trading an axe at the throat of the Empire for a thousand daggers stabbing its body.

Also your point of divergence doesn't really help with the Incarnates as they had already come into being before that point. Teclis freed the seven remaining Winds from the Votrex during the winter of 2526 while Valten's death happened in the autumn of 2527. So around third quarters of a year between each other.

At least with setting it several centuries after the End Times so they have a chance to rebuild while we can have the Incarnates disappear off-screen during the timeskip so that they aren't a factor in this 9E setting.

[RunepriestRidcully]

Maybe get rid of Nagash's usurption of the Underworld? Gives tomb king players back there faction and solves the problem of Nagash needing Incarnate like beings to keep him in order.

[It's also a hammer]

What about having saved Isabella from the curse Vlads body is found by Gelt who from his time using necromancy and being so close in proximity to Nagash is able to summon Vlads spirit back. In the wake of the end times and the loss of Sigmar in the rift with Archaon (who's combined god like energies were able to close the rift as they died) Vlad found Isabella and subjugated Arkhan to his will and from Sylvania launched a successful campaign and became the Emperor.

Allows pockets of human resistance against him led by Huss. Possible betrayal by Arkhan as he attempts to re-summon Nagash who is trapped in the Underworld.