Workshop Unofficial 9th Edition Fluff?

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Maybe get rid of Nagash's usurption of the Underworld? Gives tomb king players back there faction and solves the problem of Nagash needing Incarnate like beings to keep him in order.

I've been rereading the End Times books and... yeah that's not going to work. Especially given the one thing I had completely forgotten about, something that first brought long before the End Times, the Black Pyramid of Nagash. It was designed and built specifically to gather and store magical energy from the Winds of Magic for Nagash. Once he was resurrected, Nagash pulled Shyish from the Vortex and bound it to Sylvania before heading south to get his Pyramid so he could bring it to Sylvania to slowly absorb Shyish into his being along with all the magical power the Pyramid had gathered over the millennia. In fact between his victory in Nehekhara and the Pyramid's destruction by the Skaven in Archaon he was far more powerful than the other Incarnates, bordering on God-level (non-Chaos God) power. It was the destruction of the Black Pyramid that cost him much of that power, dropping him back down to Incarnate-level, shattering his plans to become a God and forcing him to parley with the other Incarnates.

The destruction of Usirian and usurpation of the Underworld was two-fold in purpose. The first was to advance his design to achieve Godhood but the more immediate reason was to quickly win the War of the Dead. You see the Tomb Kings do not have necromancy as vampires and necromancers do. Rather the Liche Priests summon the spirits of their dead back to their bodies. But they can only raise their dead. They can't raise the corpses of their enemies or the buried dead of other nations. Nagash consuming Usirian allowed him to stop the magics of the Liche Priests from summoning their spirits, preventing them from raising their fallen forces again and again. Certainly Nagash possessed far, far more magical power than Settra but I suspect Settra was a better strategist and military leader. While Nagash would have likely won the war anyway but Settra, with every Tomb King and their legions roused and at his side, would have made it a long, drawn out struggle for Nagash. Something he probably didn't want, especially if Vlad and the other Mortachs he sent to the Empire met with problems or someone, like the Elves, tried to unbind Shyish from Sylvania.

And that doesn't really address the matter that some don't like, the Incarnates. Nagash became the first Incarnate when he snatched Shyish, paving the way for the others. Well that and the fact his undying spirit had become heavily tied to Shyish over the millennia. In fact if I remember correctly every time Nagash had died his spirit would come to exist within Shyish, not entirely unlike Sigmar's imprisonment within Azyr. Though Nagash was able to speak to some extent with Arkhan and other lieutenants.

As a Tomb King player I didn't actually mind all that much the Tomb Kings being folded into the Undead Legion with the Vampire Counts, I was more annoyed that they got overshadowed by the vampires and that they only paid off that final Settra scene in the novels rather than the game books. Though Vlad's story was one of the best stories in the End Times.

[RunepriestRidcully]

Thats the issue, the folding the tomb kings into the vampire counts robs them of their agency, and any real power, and diminishes them form an actual faction to a subset that will be lucky to survive and forced to just.. accept the figure they hate most as their master.
Why does Nagash snatching Shyish/killing the underworld have to be kept? It pretty much destroys/undermines one faction, and does just relagate Tomb King's to lackeys of Nagash.
Plus what were all the other Tomb king gods doing? Yeah most of the remaining ones were of warfare and things associated with it, but did they just sit back twiddling their thumbs as one as their own was killed by the mortal who had destroyed their mortal land/civilisation?

[AkatsukiLeader13]

A) The same could be said for the Vampire Counts as all of them are just as much slaves to Nagash as the Tomb Kings.

B) Except the Tomb Kings didn't have much agency to begin with. Most of the time they slept in their tombs or watched over their dead cities until something comes and intrudes upon their realm.

[Col. Tartleton]

Here's my small issue. Before the End Times everyone was at their height of power, a golden age:

The Dark Elves had built their strength and Witch King Malekith was poised to actually take back Ulthuan. The High Elves under Prince Tyrion were positioned to throw them back into the sea. The largest war yet in ages was about to start and both sides had a legitimate chance of winning. The Empire was being led by the finest military and political leaders it had enjoyed in generations. The Hordes of Chaos had rallied around Archaon, a man whose feats of will and ruthlessness marked him as one of the greatest men to ever walk the earth. etc.

This goes for everyone faction. So naturally this is an exciting time to play the game, the time in which all the great powers were prepared for an unprecedented conflict. End Times serves to provide the rapid escalation and devastation of that war. So what bothers me is that any sort of resolution will leave everyone defeated. In order for Archaon's armies to sweep down from the North to defeat Naggaroth, the Empire, and Cathay he basically exhausted all the might of Chaos and destroyed all of their enemies. To me the interesting thing would be focusing on the past, because the future was inevitably bleak. Even if good prevails it would be at an enormous price, we'd lose entire swathes of civilized lands, numerous heroes would die, and the world would be that much closer to destruction.

If the Empire lives most people seem to agree at minimum the Eastern and Northern regions would be ruined, and it would take generations to restore and recolonize the sacked cities and ravaged farmlands. Likewise the wild lands of the far north would be emptied for generations. It would take a long time for their populations to recover, unless we take advantage of the idea that time flows differently. So either the north beats the south to the race and attacks again before they're ready or both powers take a long time to recover their strength and fight another war. As I see it, any Archaon invasion is going to hasten the demise of the civilized lands. Either he wins outright, wins the long game, or bloodies them and maintains the status quo. There's no downside for Chaos.

We saw the Archaon wins version of events in End Times. We saw something of the other two in Storm of Chaos. None of these results really improves the setting.

So as I see it, the challenge in creating 9th Edition is revising the End Times, but more importantly working to improve Age of Sigmar. How can we make the Age of Sigmar feel more like Warhammer, rather than trying to advance the timeline without breaking the Old World.

How do we get to Age of Sigmar and make it not suck while using the existing Warhammer fluff we like?

[Kisanis]

First of all, great reading!

I feel like the brets could be more of a perpetual crusader state; using anti-chaos religious fury much like christians during the crusade era.
Admittedly i'm more of a macro picture person. I like to look at maps and ledgers of the big picture, how many soldiers are left, how does the economy work, what does the trade look like?

I think in this world of shattered states, the once lesser nations need to start having an impact and a story. Araby, Ind, Nippon, etc... they need to be a part of the story now.

They all lived through what I am sure was their own chaos war.

To make this "new" old real have life, and feel all that more tangible, these are puzzle pieces that need to find a place, and frankly that was always a gaping hole, that GW annoyingly left open.

What of the other gods? What of the other monsters? What of these other millions of humans? The elves in their far trading posts?

I think another thing to be explored here is the chance for the dwarves to have their own reconquista.

The skaven are fractured and divided, and maybe an influx of humans seeking refuge from the empire and other lands they offer their hand in retaking the mountains?

I think Tilea and Estalia need to play a bigger part now.

What the end times did here was cause massive movment of peoples, and massive upheavel to the existing nation states.
Essentially this is the warhammer migration period and post-plague era all rolled into one.

I like the smaller narratives, but I feel like the bigger picture is still massively incomplete.


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[Razios]

Here's my small issue. Before the End Times everyone was at their height of power, a golden age:

The Dark Elves had built their strength and Witch King Malekith was poised to actually take back Ulthuan. The High Elves under Prince Tyrion were positioned to throw them back into the sea. The largest war yet in ages was about to start and both sides had a legitimate chance of winning. The Empire was being led by the finest military and political leaders it had enjoyed in generations. The Hordes of Chaos had rallied around Archaon, a man whose feats of will and ruthlessness marked him as one of the greatest men to ever walk the earth. etc.

Which is one of the main issues here: the status quo is so fragil it is going to break any time soon, and indeed is going to happen in end times...just that it destrot everything.

Now my Idea is that incarnate manage to ascend to godhood and stop chaos, while the realms form around the world, link it around them, the warhammer world echo with life and this life move into one of the 9 realms, both need to survive againts chaos...

See? this change things: Sigmar become the only god alive and the fact he came again he become the storm-god, Tecils as the new khaine of light, Alariel-isha, Nagash....etc and establish who the nine-realm interact with the warhammer world.

What did you think about it?

[Col. Tartleton]

Which is one of the main issues here: the status quo is so fragil it is going to break any time soon, and indeed is going to happen in end times...just that it destrot everything.

Now my Idea is that incarnate manage to ascend to godhood and stop chaos, while the realms form around the world, link it around them, the warhammer world echo with life and this life move into one of the 9 realms, both need to survive againts chaos...

See? this change things: Sigmar become the only god alive and the fact he came again he become the storm-god, Tecils as the new khaine of light, Alariel-isha, Nagash....etc and establish who the nine-realm interact with the warhammer world.

What did you think about it?

Yes, I think it might make more sense to tear the winds from the Vortex and use them to create the realms directly, counter balancing chaos. Presumably this would make it harder for Chaos to manifest in the Warhammer World which is really the idea, plus giving the Order Gods a power boost. The human pantheon might carve out their patch of the Realms: Taal ruling the humans of Ghur, Rhya ruling the humans of Ghyran, Manann ruling the humans of Azyr, Morr ruling Shyish with Usirian, etc. Then we have a separate Elf Pantheon for the relaunch, so Asuryan rules the Elves of Aqshy, Vaul in Chamon, Isha ruling Ghyran, perhaps Kurnous and Anath Raema fighting over Ghur, and Mathlann ruling Azyr. The Dwarfs would have Grimnir ruling Aqshy, Grugni in Chamon, Valaya in Ghyran, Gazul in Shyish, etc.

Then we have various Chaos Realms for the different Gods. So Khorne is going to have his Realm of Battle, Slaanesh his Realm of Darkness, Tzeentch his Realm of Mysteries, Hashut having his Realm of Flame, etc.

I think all we really need is to balance the disparities between the Order Pantheons and the Chaos Pantheon. I don't really think elevating special characters to Gods does anything. Nagash is powerful enough as he is. He doesn't need to eat Valaya and Usirian and become Shyish. He's already a giant undead wizard who speaks in caps lock. I think he'll be okay. Let him continue scheming about Godhood and trying to conquer the other realms. He can even have his own Realm, he has enough magical savvy to do so. Perhaps even being Godlike within his own creation. Perhaps Nagashizzar will serve as a direct conduit to his personal realm. The Gods needing a physical connection to the World. Perhaps Taal at La Maisontaal, Ulric at Middenheim, Khorne at the Bastion Stairs. These sacred sites can be the centers of their cults, places they speak, and occasionally manifest in some way. The world isn't as awash in magic and chaos as it once was. A victory for the good guys despite the general beating they took.

[Presentdent]

Hey, folks! It's nice to see there's still attention for this topic, but I was recently suspended for apparently "trolling and derailing" the fluff thread about "Who is Sigmar?" by including shots at Age of Sigmar when explaining the character's story and where he is now. I consider that ridiculous and this doesn't seem to be a site I want to be a part of. However, plenty of you have discussed and contributed! So, while for the time being I will no longer be supporting this thread, I wanted to leave you with one last update. I have already moved most discussion of AU9 over to another forum and will be collecting the info on pastebin. Sorry to ditch all of you!

I thought I should probably update anyone who's interested on what else has been decided:

The Migration Period/Age of Exploration:
-Disenfranchised Tilean and Estalian noblemen, returning to their lands to find them ruled over by Bretonnian nobility, make for the 'New World' in the west. Now-abandoned by the Slaan and many of the lizardmen, Lustria is a flooded, cracked, and warpstone-covered continent rich for the spoils. Colonies are established by Tileans, Estalians, and even Imperial refugees realizing their county has become a pus-infected wound in the surface of the world.

-The Dwarfs of Karaz Ankor reel after the death of their High King and other leaders like Belegar and Thorek. Ungrim Ironfist is de facto leader of the Dwarves, with the help of surviving throng-lords and lesser thanes. Having marched first to relieve the siege at Averheim, and then to retake Nuln, they now sit in Karak Norn -- the lonely hold of the Grey Mountains. Even now, they plan a reconquest of the World's Edge, though there is debate over whether to go to Eight Peaks or Everpeak first.

-Between the times when the oceans drank Ulthuan and the rise of the sons of Archaon, there was an age undreamed of. And unto this, Grimgor! Destined to bear the jeweled crown of Cathay upon a troubled brow. Let me tell you of the days of high adventure!

-Okay, Conan references aside, after smashing the Great Bastion held by forces of Chaos, Grimgor's Waaagh! drove into northern Cathay, butchering as they went, until Grimgor came to the ruined Summer Palace of the Dragon-Emperor. There, his Waaagh! gathered in the northern capital of Cathay. The Dragon-Emperor had retreated to his Winter Palace in the swamps and rice paddies of the south. When the world didn't end and the Cathayan army marched north once again, they found a rampaging Orcish horde to meet them. Much slaughter was had, and Grimgor felt he might have found paradise -- a world where there were endless waves of humies to fight (given Cathay's enormous population). But, even as he killed Cathayans one handed, Grimgor began to wonder... even if he killed more humans than any Orc before, he wasn't killing "the best." So he wasn't proving he was "the best." So, now, ruling as Cathay's Kublai Khan in the north, Grimgor wonders if it isn't time to turn around the largest Waaagh! the world had ever seen, back through the Mountains of Mourn, the Dark Lands, and to the Empire where he cut his teef.

-Malekith is Phoenix King. Tyrion wanders the world trying to atone for his great sins. Teclis is half-advisor to the (very much still evil and cruel) Malekith, convincing himself that his manipulations to put the Witch King on the ground were justified. The elven court is divided between two factions, those who wish to return to Naggaroth and drive out Chaos, and those who want to inherit the old colonies of Tilea, Estalia, and Bretonnia, now that human populations have dwindled... even if there are still a few humans in the way.

-Roderigo Delmonte is elected the new leader of Luccini after both Lorenzo Lupo and Leopold of the Leopard Company die in the final battle for Tilea -- with all of the Leopard Twins' descendants dead, the people of Luccini looked to the one captain that had shown most care for the citizenry, and that man was the cyclopean founder of the Alcatani Fellowship who fought a running retreat to shepherd refugees onto boats bound for Sartosa.

-Asarnil the Dragonlord took out a **** ton of Skaven, fighting like a G before he died.

-Pirazzo of the Lost Legion wonders whether now isn't a good time to put his experience to use and sign on with a group of colonists going to gather 'Green Gold' from shattered Lustria.

-Greasus Goldtooth got krumped by Grimgor, even without the Wind of Beasts, and the Ogres are engaged in an eating* contest to see how will be the next king. Golgfag, the obvious favorite, is too busy *********** around with a shark jaw on his back to participate. (Okay, this one is a little silly)

-Nagash, in his hubris, thought he could contain the power of a god. Even Karl Franz couldn't achieve that without burning out and losing his will to Sigmar. But Nagash is a tougher cookie to crack. Unfortunately, the role of God of the Dead comes with some limitations. Namely -- you actually have to perform your duty. He is now relegated to a Hades-like role in the underworld, bitching and moaning about his lot and life, shepherding the dead as a far more malevolent Morr/Usirian. He's still trying to figure out how to get back to the land of the living. Or at least get himself a Persephone.

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Pretty good. About the only thing I disagree with it Malekith remaining 'very much still evil and cruel' as it ignores what he went through in Khaine to become Phoenix King. He's not the same elf he was before the invasion. The darkness is still there but he has been... tempered for a lack of better word by his experiences as well as by those High Elves around him, namely Teclis, Imrik and Caradryan.

Plus Alith Anar at the end of Khaine told Malekith that while he doesn't forgive him for his past actions, he has set aside his vendetta against for the sake of their people. But if Malekith should once again become a danger to their people he will put him down personally.

It's most telling that his final act in the End Times, after Archaon has won and the rift starts consuming things is that he pushes the Alarielle out of the way of falling debris, getting himself pinned beneath rubble. And before anyone suggests that maybe he loved her, no he didn't. In Archaon when they talk about the new kingdom of elves, its revealed that both monarchs distrust the other. Alarielle fears that Malekith will slide back to his old ways while Malekith is constantly suspicious of her plotting against him as they had been foes before all this. It points out that the tragedy of it is that they are both wrong and that it is all Elven pride and history that drives them to keep their distance from each other.

Certainly Phoenix King Malekith wouldn't be the nicest guy but he wouldn't be the Witch King he was either.

Also when you say he's Phoenix King does that mean he still cares the last portion of Asuryan's power? As in terms of rules there's actually three Malekiths, along with three Alarielles and Tyrions. The first is the Witch King from the Dark Elf Army Book. The second is the Phoenix King version of him, empowering Malekith beyond his previous stats and abilities. The final version being the Eternity King AKA the Incarnate of Shadows.

And for that matter is Alarielle still the empowered Avatar of Isha? And what's their status of immortals? When Lileath, the last Elf god wed them she basically named them the eternal monarchs of the elves for as long as the world lived. And actually Malekith would still carry the title of Eternity King if that's the case as that's where the title came from. He wouldn't have the power of Ulgu but he would have the title.

[Razios]

I consider that ridiculous and this doesn't seem to be a site I want to be a part of.

Because you where, taking shot at age of sigmar even when I ask you to stop, so....

Why Dwarft are going to stay in their holds? they dont have enought power to hold them anymore, dosent it? also there is not reason to go back to Naggaroth as the fluff say the Druuchi barely care about it

Now, if you want something else, look what Josh post:

http://ask.fm/JoshMReynolds/answer/125510216415)#_=_

a ghoul kindom...sound cool or what?

here is also a recount of what happen in Brettonia so you can pin the exact moment of your divergance: http://ask.fm/JoshMReynolds/answer/126383679711#_=_

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Because you where, taking shot at age of sigmar even when I ask you to stop, so....

Why Dwarft are going to stay in their holds? they dont have enought power to hold them anymore, dosent it? also there is not reason to go back to Naggaroth as the fluff say the Druuchi barely care about it

With the dwarfs its their last Hold, their only remaining city. They're gonna defend it until the end no matter how stupid that may be. Though I must admit I love the idea of the only Dwarf king left being the Slayer King and having to wrestle with the needs of his people and desire to fulfill the Slayer Oath.

As for the Dark Elves and their former lands I had forgotten about that and that before the left for Ulthuan Malekith ordered the cities razed so that the forces of Chaos that had been assaulting them would get nothing when they came around again.

So yeah there's really nothing there for the Dark Elves.

If anyone among the Elves wanted to reclaim a lost home it would be the High Elves but they can't really reclaim what's on the bottom of the ocean.

Of course there's still plenty of things that can be done with the Elves.

[Urgat]

Here's my small issue. Before the End Times everyone was at their height of power, a golden age:

The Dark Elves had built their strength and Witch King Malekith was poised to actually take back Ulthuan. The High Elves under Prince Tyrion were positioned to throw them back into the sea. The largest war yet in ages was about to start and both sides had a legitimate chance of winning. The Empire was being led by the finest military and political leaders it had enjoyed in generations. The Hordes of Chaos had rallied around Archaon, a man whose feats of will and ruthlessness marked him as one of the greatest men to ever walk the earth. etc.

This goes for everyone faction. So naturally this is an exciting time to play the game, the time in which all the great powers were prepared for an unprecedented conflict. End Times serves to provide the rapid escalation and devastation of that war. So what bothers me is that any sort of resolution will leave everyone defeated. In order for Archaon's armies to sweep down from the North to defeat Naggaroth, the Empire, and Cathay he basically exhausted all the might of Chaos and destroyed all of their enemies. To me the interesting thing would be focusing on the past, because the future was inevitably bleak. Even if good prevails it would be at an enormous price, we'd lose entire swathes of civilized lands, numerous heroes would die, and the world would be that much closer to destruction.

If the Empire lives most people seem to agree at minimum the Eastern and Northern regions would be ruined, and it would take generations to restore and recolonize the sacked cities and ravaged farmlands. Likewise the wild lands of the far north would be emptied for generations. It would take a long time for their populations to recover, unless we take advantage of the idea that time flows differently. So either the north beats the south to the race and attacks again before they're ready or both powers take a long time to recover their strength and fight another war. As I see it, any Archaon invasion is going to hasten the demise of the civilized lands. Either he wins outright, wins the long game, or bloodies them and maintains the status quo. There's no downside for Chaos.

We saw the Archaon wins version of events in End Times. We saw something of the other two in Storm of Chaos. None of these results really improves the setting.

So as I see it, the challenge in creating 9th Edition is revising the End Times, but more importantly working to improve Age of Sigmar. How can we make the Age of Sigmar feel more like Warhammer, rather than trying to advance the timeline without breaking the Old World.

How do we get to Age of Sigmar and make it not suck while using the existing Warhammer fluff we like?

Here's what I'd have done, considering I enjoy the fact Archaon wins in the end.
Well I don't really like the artifact thing coming out of nowhere in the end, but it's there, so it'll serve. Therefore, I'd only change the very last pages of the book. It all goes the same, excepted the artifact doesn't destroy the world, it "phases it" in the Realms of Chaos, or opens a demonic gate of unprecedented magnitude, something like that. Anyway, the World ends up being pretty much wiped out of its inhabitants by a big flood of demons.
Chaos has won, as in ET, Archaon stands on a rocky cliff, enjoying his badassery, and clap of thunder welcomes him as a new god in the Dark Pantheon, etc etc.

The Chaos Gos therefore have no interest in the Old World anymore, so when the artifact finally runs out of juice, the world is spit out of the chaos realms, the gate closes, whatever; the Gods don't care anymore, they just let it go (excepted Slaanesh, who's secretly happy - because it's noted (s)he wasn't too enthusiastic about destroying the Old World, (s)he probably enjoyed it as a playground). So the World is left ruined, but still there. Chaos is gone, too, excepted for a few warbands left behind to enjoy the giant sandpark. It's not in any better shape than it used to be though. All the magic that saturated it during the Reign of Chaos did its job. The polar gates are now closed, but there's so much magic it doesn't matter anymore, all but the most powerful demons can pop in and out on a whim, the chaos sorcerers can now duke it out w/o having to painfully gather the winds (that they've lost control of anyway, the Incarnates dissapeared, but the Winds, apparently, were not freed, at least they're nowhere to be found as of yet).
The denizens of the Old World are now, for all intent and purpose, beastmen who, forsaken by their gods, have turned even more feral and now cull themselves in wild abandon.

But, against all odds, there are survivors. 50 years have passed. Deep in the mountains or the forests, some have endured.
Gilles and his vampire pal ride forth from ruined Athel Loren that they've claimed as their own.
The elves who took shelter in that dimension where Araloth was hidden open gates to peek at the sad state of the world, and find it ripe for their return. It is a small dimension after all, and even though they've managed to live together up till now, Malekith and co are not blind, things are pretty tense. Better give the dark, high and wood cousins some personnal space to breathe.
The dwarfs pop out from their mountains, as inamovible as ever. The rift between the traditionnalists and the engineers have widened. The engineers claim tradition failed them during the End Times, and the Skavens, be they infinititely doomed, proved the superiority of technology. Traditionnalists resent that, and claim that it is the engineers that made them weaker. As they're dwarfs, this lead to emulation through competition. Dwarfs have never been so determined to show who's the best, excepted this time, they want to show each other, not some pesky elf or weak human.
Greenskins and ogres? United under Skarsnik, they're as unkillable as weed. Grimgor would have led them to extinction, trying to face odds heads on, but not Skarsnik.
Nagash, as the artifact was activated, found a world filling to the rim with magical energy, from which he tapped with abandon, in a blink recovering his god-like ppowers from before the Black Pyramid was destroyed. And destroyed it is, but whitin it his essence remains. Born back from the spell uttered by the god of Undeath, the Black Pyramid's fragments gather over Middenheim, and thus the dark monument is rebuilt. With his dark vessel, Nagash flees in the united realms of the Dead, a congregation of Morr's gardens and of that TK god's realm. He's one powerful being though. As chaos loses interest in the Old World, Nagash's realm pick their interest. He's been the closest one to defeat them, after all, or so they feel. But in his own realm, Nagash is one tough nut to crack. While the gods hae their stares diverted towards the Undead Realm, someone makes his move.

The gods of the Old World have been decimated, but there's one who doesn't give up easily. Tearing the veil of reality wth Ghal Maraz, Sigmar nearly escaped annihilation the way the elves did. He then start a crusade to save as many people as possible from the demonic onslaught that overruns the world. Cue to the creation of his own Heavens, the stormcast eternal. Forget the 1000 years, etc.

As I said, we're 50 years later. Luckily, all the surviving characters are either immortal, or enjoy a very long life span (excepted maybe Skarsnik, but we don't know a goblin's lifespan so if I say so, I say so).

All over the Old World, survivors have started the War of Reconquest. It starts in Athel Loren. This is where Gilles and Aborrash survived, where the Elves portals open, it is in the Grey Montains that the dwarfs endured. A mighty cohalition swipes north-west and reclaims much of the lands from the hands of marauding demons, beastmen and tribes. Once Bretonnia is reconquered, humans are to leave Athel Loren. This is the final elf/human covenant, claims the Phoenix King. So be it, answers the Green Knight, king of men. Dwarfs shrug about ****-like elven beer. They'll help the horse breeders some more because they like them better than the elves, then will cross the mountains east-ward to walk back to their old realms and maybe reconquer them, or start again from scratch.
Sigmar starts his War of Reconquest, sending his Stormcast Eternals through the gate opened in the ruins of his temple in fallen Altdorf, and quickly sets a foothold... only to hear of a mighty force coming from the South.
For there is one who has not waited for his time to come, never accepted the rule of anybody else, who wouldn't be content to let the storm pass. He who shall never bend the knee to someone else. Settra never understood why the Chaos Gods "revived" him, nor was he grateful, nor did he care. Only one thing mattered to him : revenge on Nagash. With a world bathed in magic and the deserts of Nehekara left relatively untouched by the demons (nothing left there), he slowly rebuilt his forces, and now marches north towards the porweful nexus of energy that is Middenheim. He hopes he can use the artifact to reach Nagash and finally destroy the traitor thanks to his his new-found powers and the gifts Chaos have left him.

And from the Middle Mountains, a tiny warlord with way too much power in his hands finally starts his own Waaagh, with the modest goal of taking over the entire world. With goblins, orcs, and even ogres in his grasp, nobody but Chaos has ever enjoyed as much power as Skarsnik now does.

All this is observed by two other forces. High above the clouds, ancient-looking pyramids over amidst the debris of Moorslieb, and their occupents try to comprehend what it is that led them to failure, and how to correct it.
And in the Realm of Chaos, there is a new ascended power besides Archaon. The Horned Rat finds himself in a rather uneasy position. Ascension to the Pantheon has pulled him out of his safe place, in the open, and the Chaos Gods do not enjoy this new neighbour much. The Horned Rat needs power, more power, enough power to compete with the four brothers. He needs Warpstone, in unlimited quantities, to gorge on. A moon's worth of volume, actually. And so a frightened grey seer skitterleaps into what he things is a demonworld. Seconds away from releasing the musk of fear, Thanquol discovers that things might not be so dire down there, that maybe fuylfilling his master's wishes might not be impossible...

So it starts with three rather close fronts : Everybody but Empire against Chaos in Bretonnia, a threeway brawl Sigmar vs chaos vs TK in the Empire, and a Waaagh emerging from Ochland, once again against Chaos, while Skavens and Lizardmen deepstrike everywhere. I guess Sigmarines deepstrike too when needed, because they're marines.
The fluffbooks I release are obviously a bit different than GW ones. No quest for Ghal Maraz, coz my Sigmar isn't a cluntz. We're now at the book "The Conquest of the Empire" (I'll have to GWify the name. Maybe "Bloods and Skull in the Sigmempire"). Bretonnia has been won back, Settra has pushed back Sigmar back to Altdorf (my Sigmar isn't a clutz, but he's a bit too optimistic, coming back in the middle with foes everywhere around him. Noit that he had a choice, with only one entry back available to him - because I decided so). The greenskins have taken control of Old Kislev and working theor way up towards the Trool Country and down along the World's Edge Mountains... only to find angry Sigmariners pucheed back by undead colliding with their back ends. So centered on the Empire we have elves coming from the South west (they left the brets to their own devices, they're now following their own agenda, using Athel Loren as a base), Brets from north west, Unbdead from the South east, greenskins from the north east. Dwarfs have linked back with the Empire, and are allies. Skavens... Skavens, I have to fin a reason for them to get sytcuk in Karak Eight peaks and not go straight for Lustria. As fpor the Lizardmen? The plans of the Old Ones have failed, but the intent was right. It is time for some New Plans, to put the World right.

As for the Chaos Gods? Settra didn't stop long to wonder why they brought him back to unlife... he might be about to find out, along with Morathi's fate and what happened to the Moot (in imaginary book 3! Stay tuned released on the 34 of Marchary 2014).

Sorry for the no doubt countless typos, I'm not abour to reread all that just yet.


After that stuff happens, I'm not going to rewrite the whole thing, but you get the idea.

[Razios]

Urgat: nothing bad, just one thing: cut the wold 50 years because after a while time will stop have sense with chaos in the world, maybe it return after a while but otherwise it feel strange.

Also they already put it here in 1d4chan: http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Endhammer

Now is not that bad but there is something they are left out:

Sigmar been a incarnae should change the church of sigmar, it can be the same away after they witness the power never seen. also if Karl franz was touch....what this could mean for his son? also Taal and Rhya are out seen they get wipe out by nurgle, Ulric should have more strange after middleheim stand archeron, maybe the mage with the power of Ulric could stand against Galt.

Second is Brettonia: there is not way they reclain estalia and Tilea it feel force and fanwank to give them power after all it happen and how Abborash help is drop it, Brettonia should not expand, a least no that quick.

Third Mal returning into his old self and decided to get back to Naggaroth? please just....please.

I dont know...it feel more like post storm of chaos than end times, trying to retcon away GW in order to have a very week setting

[Col. Tartleton]

That's kind of my point. There's no way to not make going forward worse for the narrative and the setting than going backward.

Ultimately Warhammer worked better as a setting with a narrative than a narrative with a setting.

Anyhow, good start Presentdent. Details like Harald Hammerstorm becoming a Sigmarite warlord is perfect. Grimgor the Barbarian also amuses me.

There's definitely a lot to like about this. The trick will just be to make the new status quo feel balanced and interesting.

Razios has a point on about the Bretonnian ascendancy feeling a bit engineered. Just like I felt the Skaven succeeding was completely out of character as a Skaven fan. On the other hand Thanquol snorting his own body weight in warpstone dust and saving the world is as it should be. "I cut the breaks! Wildcard Bitches!" Then he's off to Khuresh for more drugs and a fleeting perception of safety.

[ryng_sting]

And that doesn't really address the matter that some don't like, the Incarnates. Nagash became the first Incarnate when he snatched Shyish, paving the way for the others. Well that and the fact his undying spirit had become heavily tied to Shyish over the millennia.

Not the full story. Teclis had been communicating with Nagash long before his return, and it was from their discussions that he took the idea of binding Shysh to himself. Teclis, as we know, didn't allow that to go entirely to plan.

Before the End Times, GW were keen to point out the difference between Necromancy and Shysh. Amethyst wizards accept death and endings, and avoid using Dhar or Dark Magic in their spells. Necromancers are the opposite.

[Razios]

That's kind of my point. There's no way to not make going forward worse for the narrative and the setting than going backward.

Ultimately Warhammer worked better as a setting with a narrative than a narrative with a setting.

Anyhow, good start Presentdent. Details like Harald Hammerstorm becoming a Sigmarite warlord is perfect. Grimgor the Barbarian also amuses me.

There's definitely a lot to like about this. The trick will just be to make the new status quo feel balanced and interesting.

Razios has a point on about the Bretonnian ascendancy feeling a bit engineered. Just like I felt the Skaven succeeding was completely out of character as a Skaven fan. On the other hand Thanquol snorting his own body weight in warpstone dust and saving the world is as it should be. "I cut the breaks! Wildcard Bitches!" Then he's off to Khuresh for more drugs and a fleeting perception of safety.

But a least there is a presedent since Skaven can cause mass destruction and many clan where burn outestilen,eshin and so one, but that is because End times was so damn fast, we didnt get to enjoy the end of everything(which is weird, they can make it slow and sell more that way)

Bretonnia being stronger can be atribute to Abborash making a pact with Giles and Ushoran, or something else...instead is just "Nop, he is just that good" and boom, sudenly they are theirs. also it dosent point out the elephant in the room: lilieth, she was the one giving power of kinght, without her they are just a bunch of uptight french who get beaten: HOW it deal with it? becuase it decide they just have the same power them is a cop up of the worse nature, like "and them this return just they way it is"

See my point? with something like the end times, the status quo goes to the warp and never look bad, you can advance the narrative but HOW it deals with it? GW never does since some miniture cant be sold anymore if that happen so it stay in this fragil status quo.

So for me, Im going with your idea(since I was having the same actually) just that some gods have to die: what about Taal and Rhya being swallow by the earthmother, Mort is out or fused with Shallaya as genderless god who juged life and death? you can have the incarnate being gods there in the realms but imposible to interfiere with the realm of mortal who have some sort of conection with the other 8.

What do you think?

[Col. Tartleton]

I'm not sure how the gods could "die." One would think the influx of fervor and souls would empower them. Talabecland might have taken a horrific beating but I would think they'd cling to their faith in Taal and Rhya. Middenheim broke the storm of chaos on its craggy walls so Ulric and Sigmar should be ascendant. Of course with the Old World out of sync from the Realms of Magic we may have trouble manifesting their powers, but they should be stronger than before if more distant.

The demise of the gods makes sense if you're genuinely ending the setting, but otherwise it seems out of place.

[Razios]

I'm not sure how the gods could "die." One would think the influx of fervor and souls would empower them. Talabecland might have taken a horrific beating but I would think they'd cling to their faith in Taal and Rhya. Middenheim broke the storm of chaos on its craggy walls so Ulric and Sigmar should be ascendant. Of course with the Old World out of sync from the Realms of Magic we may have trouble manifesting their powers, but they should be stronger than before if more distant.

The demise of the gods makes sense if you're genuinely ending the setting, but otherwise it seems out of place.

In the same sense eldar gods die went slaanesh went all buffet on them, dosent it?.

Also the issue becuase is end of the worl that god should die a least some of them so the whole world change, a problem with endhammer is that it feel like a shake up that anything else, in fact it remains me of storm of chaos as valten and archeron take up in middleheim and the whole change feel territorial and political without thinking who people react if they saw Valten(incarnation of Sigmar) take down the chosen of chaos an so one.

Also in my idea for age of sigmar-warhammer work it propuse that both realms have...echos between them which explain why there is life in those world and why they build civilization similar: is because the world that was is afecting the 8 realms as whole

Edit: look the talk page here http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Talk:Endhammer for all their stuff is cleary they dont have a clear idea of what to do, specially about elf part of khaine(which to be fair, was quite divise here in warseer) and most of it as just guess it of who is going to end, like I said they should just make a continuation of storm of chaos

[Razios]

Ok, so far I will make this post only to put the new of "endhammer" it seen that after Tg typical bickering they have made something of a setting:

-There are some good ideas like a beastman kindom in Ind, that sound good, a least they have make a follow of Josh reynolds answer

-While Bretonnia dosent look so luck yet they still didnt aswer WHY liliesh will grand something to punny human anymore, or why Giles will work with her after all, it feel like they go backward with GW canon because it upset their status quo.

-Nothing to said with Dwarf but chaos one are a littl bit annoying in that they lose their most powerfull city and yet Hasthut is still strong...jeez.

-the Elves are the worst in this regard, at first they return Malekith to be the witch king, they fix that(or rather the deflect) and somehow Malekith can make a heri...yeah, not buying, them somehow Ariel and Orion are still alive and well even when they die in khaine, but Morathi is nowhere to been seen....how this happen? again they take GW canon but for reason let behind thing they dont want, it dosent work like that.

-The empire surived the end times, that should be sometime, a problem with Storm of chaos is that it never feel like cataclysmit even it was presented, the churhcs works fine making politic even after Taal,Rhya and all other god have fails but it never said anything about it, again they want to have the empire without have it.

-So the lizardman without Slaan? well that isn going well consider dragon islan where they are feral...but who cares

-The way skavenblight is destroy is really stupid and very ironic how they complain of GW doing the same, it clear they dont have any idea of weaking the Skaven so they dont wreck anything.

-So neferata is again enemy of Khalidia and Vlad and Isabella are a thing again...somehow, abborah it just giving a token nod at best in order to not disrut brettonian asension

In the end it dosent really feel like end of the world just stop, but going backward in order to undoing the whole thing, consider they boast being superior to GW, there sucess is....lacking

[AkatsukiLeader13]

*Looks up Endhammer...*

...



Yeah that's an ugly mess of silly, stupid and nonsensical things.