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Thread: Celestant Prime

  1. #1
    Brother Sergeant
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    Celestant Prime

    So i had a theory about the identity of the Celestant Prime.

    Its seems pretty out there but bare with me.

    Could it be Archaon AKA Diedrik Kastner
    (Brace for cry of outrage)
    Hear me out. here are a number of reasons why i think it could be the case.
    WHFB SPOILER ALERT

    - Firstly if you read the description of the Celestant prime it mentions him being a great king and guardian of men etc.
    Well Diedriek was all of these things at one point or another.
    as templar of Sigmar and the Three Eyed KING (never says CP was a nice king)

    - Secondly the Archaon was a title taken up by Diedrick. Whats to stop another worthy applicant taking up that name in his place (Kinda like imrik becoming Caledor)

    - next was the conclusion of the end times as we dont see what actually happened to archaon.

    - Sigmar both commented and reflected during the end times that Diedrick would have been a great leader of men and would have basically led the mortal races to victory against chaos had he not been corrupted (Fits the description of CP)

    - Diedrick did have a number of Darth Vader like moments of regret if you read the Archaon novels as he seemed to resent his fate.

    - Also for those of you that have spotted the new Archaon model floating about his appearence seems to have changed. Also he was supposdly tested once again by the Chaos Gods (Why would you need to re test a guy about his ability to destroy worlds when he did such a good job the first time round. unless its a new applicant up for interview for the post of Archaon)

    - there are another couple of other small reasons that could indicate this as a possibiity but the above are the ones worth mentioning.

    So here is what i think could have happened.

    Sigmar and Diedrick are last seen falling into the realm of chaos. The two of them wrestle for a while before becoming seperated. Sigmar meets his dragon friend and starts doing the whole rebuilding the worlds and wakeing up the other incarnates until . . .Whats this? he stumbles onto the battered body of Diedrick who (having completed his job.) was cast away by the Chaos gods (he wasent exactly there most polite servant. considering he justified his ET actions as robbing the Gods of there power).
    Sigmar picks him up and takes him home where he attempts to undo the corruption done to Diedrick and turn him into the potential saviour he might have once been. As archaon was near god like during the endtimes this prooves to be a more difficult project thatn sigmar could handle at that moment so he seals him away until he gains the means to 'complete' him (Ghal Maraz) Dierdrick then arises as the new celestant prime ready to kick ass as the first scion of sigmar (Again diedricks potential to be the greates of sigmars 'Children') but dosent reveal his identity as the other incarnates and survivors of the old world would still be kinda pissed at him.

    And . . .Discuss!
    Last edited by KieranHayns; 16-11-2015 at 10:07.
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  2. #2
    Commander Smooth Boy's Avatar
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    Re: Celestant Prime

    A new model for Archaon is in the works so it seems unlikely and this should be in general I think. N&R is for new releases.

  3. #3
    Commander benvoliothefirst's Avatar
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    Re: Celestant Prime

    Makes perfect sense to me... Also makes me think I have to read the Archaon novels at some point. The five books in the end times series seem to have left a lot of the plot out in favor of battle descriptions, which is the same problem I had with the Star wars prequels.
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  4. #4
    Brother Sergeant
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    Re: Celestant Prime

    Archaon is an inherited name. dosent have to be the same guy

  5. #5
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    Re: Celestant Prime

    They are good novels but its but there was ALOT to try and cram into them. your best bet is to read the actual scenario books. (if that's not what your referring to)

  6. #6
    Chapter Master baphomael's Avatar
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    Re: Celestant Prime

    Quote Originally Posted by KieranHayns View Post
    Archaon is an inherited name. dosent have to be the same guy
    Since when was Archaon an inherited name? All the other Everchosen have had different names (Morkar the Uniter, Vangel, Kharduun the Gloried, Asavar Kul). Archaon was just the last in the list of folk to bare the title of Everchosen.
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  7. #7
    Brother Sergeant
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    Re: Celestant Prime

    I'd assumed it was Karl Franz.

  8. #8
    Brother Sergeant
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    Re: Celestant Prime

    Maybe inherited is the wrong word but its not the guys name. his name is Deidrick Kastner.
    But since he was the first one to get anything done it would be a name worth inheriting

  9. #9

    Re: Celestant Prime

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus8 View Post
    I'd assumed it was Karl Franz.
    I was leaning toward Markus Wulfheart.
    Fewer.

  10. #10
    Chapter Master Skywave's Avatar
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    Re: Celestant Prime

    I'm not quite versed in Chaos/Archaon fluff, but wasn't Archaon main agenda was to destroy the world/humain realm to show that Sigmar was a lie? Wasn't he spiteful against the Sigmar's "myth" and then choose to side with Chaos?

    Then at the End Time he get to fight Sigmar himself, the one who he though wasn't real. So I think him repenting later in AoS would be kind of fitting, it's something that would be much better then him just continuing to be the Chaos Gods pawn.
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  11. #11
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    Re: Celestant Prime

    Quote Originally Posted by Skywave View Post
    I'm not quite versed in Chaos/Archaon fluff, but wasn't Archaon main agenda was to destroy the world/humain realm to show that Sigmar was a lie? Wasn't he spiteful against the Sigmar's "myth" and then choose to side with Chaos?

    Then at the End Time he get to fight Sigmar himself, the one who he though wasn't real. So I think him repenting later in AoS would be kind of fitting, it's something that would be much better then him just continuing to be the Chaos Gods pawn.
    Exactly and he still had trouble accepting that the enemy he faced was Sigmar (on account of him having Karl Franz's face)

    Plus as much as i like archaon as a character i would kinda like there to be a new big bad guyfor a brand new setting

  12. #12
    Chapter Master BattleofLund's Avatar
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    Re: Celestant Prime

    And since the Chaos gods are desperately afraid of bad press they don't want to admit that Archaon has switched sides - again. So they take all his regalia and give them (and the name) to another Champion! After all, as baphomael said the Ruinous Four don't want to sully the title of Everchosen by attaching another name to it. ("All the other Everchosen have had different names (Morkar the Uniter, Vangel, Kharduun the Gloried, Asavar Kul). Archaon was just the last in the list")

    Makes perfect sense. I like it!
    Last edited by BattleofLund; 13-11-2015 at 22:03.
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  13. #13
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    Re: Celestant Prime

    I also think that it would make sense that Archaon will be the celestant prime. Wasn't it mentioned that Karl Franz "became" the new Sigmar? So why introduce another Karl Franz as the celestant prime?
    And by the way, wouldn't that be a nice twist in the story?
    Why destroying the history of 20Years to again have the same guy be the bad one there was?

  14. #14
    Commander Smooth Boy's Avatar
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    Re: Celestant Prime

    It is a cool theory and consistent with the lore but I just can't see them letting go of Archeon, he is after all the everchosen. The prime is probably something new, representing the fantasy version of a primarch, or green knight/le Breton.
    Last edited by Smooth Boy; 14-11-2015 at 07:23.

  15. #15
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    Re: Celestant Prime

    At the end of the day GW can make it whoever they want and fill in the gaps in that grey area the age of myth

    and celestant prime is . . . .Felix Jager. because why not!

    However i would say that Archaon is ONE of the everchosen. he just happened to be the only one who got stuff done.

    CP or not i dont want archaon as the new chaos supervillain

  16. #16

    Re: Celestant Prime

    Quote Originally Posted by KieranHayns View Post
    i dont want archaon as the new chaos supervillain
    But there is a new Archaon model coming and it looks very much like a new interpretation of the old model. Even if the Celestant Prime is Diedrick Kastner , Archaon seems to become the new chaos supervillain.

  17. #17

    Re: Celestant Prime

    Archaon is even more of a supervillian now than he was before. When i first read the OP i really had a WTH moment and i still dont get it. there isn't any point in any background were a character is 'cured' of chaos influence is there?
    the celestant-prime is the greatest hero that sigmar saved. it could be volkmar the grim for all we know but the odds are its just a character from post end times.
    on an aside did anyone else read the archaon novels and felt a little bit of their childhood die when the swords of chaos showed up to save him. i get the chaos angels thing but it just made no sense to me.

  18. #18
    Chapter Master ryng_sting's Avatar
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    Re: Celestant Prime

    Nice theory, but the AoS fluff actually states that Archaon is still Diederick Kastner, not someone else up taking the name.
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  19. #19
    Brother Sergeant
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    Re: Celestant Prime

    what i mean is if THAT archaon isent Diedrik then youve got a new villain with a new background without needing another model to represent him

  20. #20
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    Re: Celestant Prime

    no one of any significance. but there are quite a few examples of individuals aligned with chaos who made an attempt at redemption. one example off the top of my head is in the novel
    Beastslayer (SPOILER ALERT) where the duke of Praag's Brother or cousin is a chaos cultist sent to assasinate the duke but turns good at the last moment and sacrifices himself to save the duke.

    also i remember Alarielle purging a chaos champion issyk Kul of all the chaos influence within him but Slannash destroyed him rather than let him be saved. So im not sure if it has happened but i see no reason why it would be impossible.

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