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Thread: Is Sigmar the Deceiver?

  1. #1
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    Is Sigmar the Deceiver?

    So I've been thinking a lot about the Sigmarites and how similar they are to the Necrontyr and thought I'd get some input on this as an idea and how to implement it:

    1) The Sigmarites are allied with incredibly powerful God-like beings who, while not on par with the great Chaos deities, are nonetheless massive forces to be reckoned with.
    2) Sigmar's goal is to eliminate the Chaos deities once and for all.
    3) He seeks to accomplish this by taking living beings and forging them in to undying armoured beings.
    4) Those armoured beings get teleported back when they die.
    5) When they are killed, the process that puts them back in to their armoured bodies destroys their memories bit by bit as the deaths occur again and again.
    6) The armoured bodies look suspiciously like the old Necron Pariahs, upgunned and up-armoured.
    7) The deities they are allied with are a fractious and deadly lot, prone to infighting and betraying one another.


    So what do you think? Will Sigmar, in a fit of rage, force all of Humanity in to the sigmarite bodies to help his war? Will the Sigmarites tire of being commanded by uncaring, distant deities and shred and trap them?

  2. #2
    Chapter Master Rogue Star's Avatar
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    Re: Is Sigmar the Deceiver?

    Unlikely. Stormcast Eternals are inherently magical, which using 40K terminology, means they're charged with warp-energy which is anathema to the C'tan and their minions. We also haven't heard anything about Sigmar or Dracothion needing to feed on life-force...

    There are similar ideas there, but I think the better summary of the Stormcast would be bits of the Adeptus Astartes, and a fantasy version of the "Universal Soldier" starring Jean-Claude Van Damme and Dolph Lundgren.

    Edit: Although I do think good points are raised here, about Sigmar. The old lore presented him as a sort of "Conan the Barbarian" type figure, wielding skull splitter, no foe could best Sigmar -only peace brought him low, defeated by peace and complacency. So why is he taking such a backseat on the war? What is he doing that requires him to stay in Azyrheim?

    Also, given we have examples of Stormcst Eternals that have died multiple times, and been reforged changed, showing signs of psychopathy... why aren't any of the Stormcast Eternals questioning Sigmar on this?
    Last edited by Rogue Star; 04-05-2016 at 13:57.
    “Hell is empty and all the devils are here.” - William Shakespeare
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  3. #3
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    Re: Is Sigmar the Deceiver?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Star View Post
    Unlikely. Stormcast Eternals are inherently magical, which using 40K terminology, means they're charged with warp-energy which is anathema to the C'tan and their minions.
    Clarke's third law
    "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

  4. #4
    Chapter Master Rogue Star's Avatar
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    Re: Is Sigmar the Deceiver?

    Quote Originally Posted by Folomo View Post
    Clarke's third law
    "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
    ... but they're clearly alive. We can see eyes behind the masks, flesh on the mouth of the trumpet blower, and ride around on star-dragons... Space Undead they are not.

    Also stuff Clarke and Berry Gehm, 40K has it's own law "Any technology, no matter how primitive, is magic to those who don't understand it."
    “Hell is empty and all the devils are here.” - William Shakespeare
    “Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torment of man.” - Friedrich Nietzsche
    “We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell.” - Oscar Wilde

  5. #5
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    Re: Is Sigmar the Deceiver?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Star View Post
    ... but they're clearly alive. We can see eyes behind the masks, flesh on the mouth of the trumpet blower, and ride around on star-dragons... Space Undead they are not.
    That is true. There'd have to be some sort of similarity between the Necrontyr and Sigmar's people. The Necrontyr were notorious for their massive necropolis'. If Sigmar were the Deceiver, his Empire would have to have some sort of thematic link, like having all their buildings be massive edifices with tons of skulls and death symbols, I... WAIT A MINUTE!

    The Sigmarites aren't Necrons - Not yet. But they certainly are proto-Necrons like the Pariahs.

    http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/...20110928233437

    And for comparison to that Pariah, here are the Sigmarites:

    http://www.tabletopencounters.com/wp...hieldgrand.jpg

    Compare the faces. Put shoulder pads and some extra armour on the Pariah torso.

  6. #6
    Inquisitor Lord Damocles's Avatar
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    Re: Is Sigmar the Deceiver?

    But Sigmar is one of the missing Primarchs...

  7. #7
    Chapter Master Rogue Star's Avatar
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    Re: Is Sigmar the Deceiver?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Damocles View Post
    But Sigmar is one of the missing Primarchs...
    oh don't start that...!
    “Hell is empty and all the devils are here.” - William Shakespeare
    “Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torment of man.” - Friedrich Nietzsche
    “We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell.” - Oscar Wilde

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    Re: Is Sigmar the Deceiver?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Star View Post
    Unlikely. Stormcast Eternals are inherently magical, which using 40K terminology, means they're charged with warp-energy which is anathema to the C'tan and their minions.
    I don't know anything about WH40k lore and this is intriguing to me.
    If necrons and their gods aren't magical beings what are they? I always figured they are the undead of the 40k universe.

  9. #9
    Chapter Master Private_SeeD's Avatar
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    Re: Is Sigmar the Deceiver?

    I haven't read all the AoS books yet but can someone eloborate about sigmarites becoming unhinged due to multiple deaths and rebirths?

    sent from my omni tool via the charon mass relay
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  10. #10
    Chapter Master DarkChaplain's Avatar
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    Re: Is Sigmar the Deceiver?

    There was one guy in David Guymer's audio dramas who was through the reforging multiple times and barely seemed self-aware at that point.

  11. #11
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    Re: Is Sigmar the Deceiver?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Star View Post
    ... but they're clearly alive. We can see eyes behind the masks, flesh on the mouth of the trumpet blower
    Maybe those are Sigmarine Flayed ones?
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  12. #12
    Chapter Master Rogue Star's Avatar
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    Re: Is Sigmar the Deceiver?

    Quote Originally Posted by Groza View Post
    I don't know anything about WH40k lore and this is intriguing to me.
    If necrons and their gods aren't magical beings what are they? I always figured they are the undead of the 40k universe.
    Everything is hard biology/science (well, for GW). As Folomo put it, it's a cold, hard science taken to the point of magic. Nano-machine androids led by energy-beings which can manipulate gravity, etc. But they fulfill the "undead" archetype in 40K, essentially being an army of robotic skeletons accompanied by a energy/life draining "Star-Vampire".

    Quote Originally Posted by Private_SeeD View Post
    I haven't read all the AoS books yet but can someone eloborate about sigmarites becoming unhinged due to multiple deaths and rebirths?

    sent from my omni tool via the charon mass relay
    http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-prod...nal-ebook.html

    As it says in the summary, I only read the preview or a free extract BL were doing, but basically, a reforged Lord Celestant returns and gone is the pat on the shoulders, rousing speech before battle leader... now he's quiet, taking orders before striding off to fulfill them, rarely talking except to give commands and seems driven to kill. In the extract, when they reached the Realm of Beasts, they encountered some humans being chased down by Orruks, and sheltered the former and attempted to parley with the later, recalling Sigmar's alliance with the Greenskin God, how they could work together, etc. The dialogue is ended by the Lord Celestant, growing tired of the posturing, pulls his sword and simply hurls it to impale the leader Orruk's face!

    Like I said, signs of psychopathy.
    “Hell is empty and all the devils are here.” - William Shakespeare
    “Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torment of man.” - Friedrich Nietzsche
    “We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell.” - Oscar Wilde

  13. #13
    Chapter Master Private_SeeD's Avatar
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    Re: Is Sigmar the Deceiver?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Star View Post
    Everything is hard biology/science (well, for GW). As Folomo put it, it's a cold, hard science taken to the point of magic. Nano-machine androids led by energy-beings which can manipulate gravity, etc. But they fulfill the "undead" archetype in 40K, essentially being an army of robotic skeletons accompanied by a energy/life draining "Star-Vampire".



    http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-prod...nal-ebook.html

    As it says in the summary, I only read the preview or a free extract BL were doing, but basically, a reforged Lord Celestant returns and gone is the pat on the shoulders, rousing speech before battle leader... now he's quiet, taking orders before striding off to fulfill them, rarely talking except to give commands and seems driven to kill. In the extract, when they reached the Realm of Beasts, they encountered some humans being chased down by Orruks, and sheltered the former and attempted to parley with the later, recalling Sigmar's alliance with the Greenskin God, how they could work together, etc. The dialogue is ended by the Lord Celestant, growing tired of the posturing, pulls his sword and simply hurls it to impale the leader Orruk's face!

    Like I said, signs of psychopathy.
    Thanks will give that book a read

    sent from my omni tool via the charon mass relay
    "Mia clementia, denar esto" - "Have mercy. I was blind, but now I can see"
    A can of Inferno Relentless a day, keeps the doctor at bay
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Turalyon View Post
    The Descent of Angels would be good if titled "Cyphers favorite childhood memories"
    Quote Originally Posted by Vote Kantor View Post
    You are all forgetting the two unknown primarchs, chuck norris and santa

  14. #14
    Chapter Master DarkChaplain's Avatar
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    Re: Is Sigmar the Deceiver?

    Its the first of seven parts that make up a novel, keep that in mind.

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    Chapter Master Tokamak's Avatar
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    Re: Is Sigmar the Deceiver?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Damocles View Post
    But Sigmar is one of the missing Primarchs...
    And Archaon the other?
    Quote Originally Posted by 0604854 View Post
    the future is another question

  16. #16
    Inquisitor Lord Damocles's Avatar
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    Re: Is Sigmar the Deceiver?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tokamak View Post
    And Archaon the other?
    That's absurd.

    It's obviously Grom the Paunch.

  17. #17
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    Re: Is Sigmar the Deceiver?

    I thought the answer to any question in the warhammer world was:

    Valten did it.
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  18. #18

    Re: Is Sigmar the Deceiver?

    Well as far as I know the fluff of AoS Sigmar is a necromancer. He puts souls of fallen heroes in the armor of the Stromcast. This is like when Necromancers take lone spirits in the armys. Its interesting how this was banned in the Cult of Sigmar....

  19. #19
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    Re: Is Sigmar the Deceiver?

    Quote Originally Posted by herjan1987 View Post
    Well as far as I know the fluff of AoS Sigmar is a necromancer. He puts souls of fallen heroes in the armor of the Stromcast. This is like when Necromancers take lone spirits in the armys. Its interesting how this was banned in the Cult of Sigmar....
    Funny enough this is something nagash hates sigmar for and the reason why stormcasts are losing part of themselves upon each death. The saying in the realm of death is that "The dead belong to Nagash" so each time they die nagash is trying to grasp at their souls but sigmar's essence being infused within each stormcast causes them to "Bolt" right back to sigmar and Grungi instead of going to the underworld like they are meant to.

  20. #20
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    Re: Is Sigmar the Deceiver?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Star View Post
    Unlikely. Stormcast Eternals are inherently magical, which using 40K terminology, means they're charged with warp-energy which is anathema to the C'tan and their minions. We also haven't heard anything about Sigmar or Dracothion needing to feed on life-force...

    There are similar ideas there, but I think the better summary of the Stormcast would be bits of the Adeptus Astartes, and a fantasy version of the "Universal Soldier" starring Jean-Claude Van Damme and Dolph Lundgren.

    Edit: Although I do think good points are raised here, about Sigmar. The old lore presented him as a sort of "Conan the Barbarian" type figure, wielding skull splitter, no foe could best Sigmar -only peace brought him low, defeated by peace and complacency. So why is he taking such a backseat on the war? What is he doing that requires him to stay in Azyrheim?

    Also, given we have examples of Stormcst Eternals that have died multiple times, and been reforged changed, showing signs of psychopathy... why aren't any of the Stormcast Eternals questioning Sigmar on this?
    Well, that's not entirely true. Kormak Bloodaxe did, and of course, the End Times...

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