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  1. #1
    Chapter Master Bingo the Fun Monkey's Avatar
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    So, why isn't anyone just playing 8th edition?

    I want to play 8th edition. 9th Age is too comped, especially the 1.2 ruleset. I don't want to play Kings of War. I want to roll up with my Big Red Book, my hard cover army books and throw down. But it seems like nobody else is interested in doing this. Why?

  2. #2
    Chapter Master lorelorn's Avatar
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    Re: So, why isn't anyone just playing 8th edition?

    I could say it's because 8th is not a very good game, but that's just opinion.

    It's more accurate to say that 8th is a game with no compelling reason to play.

    War Machine has a tighter ruleset
    Kings of War does element-based fantasy play better
    9th Age provides a balanced playing field for familiar armies
    Age of Sigmar has official support and a stream of new releases

    Against any of the above, it should not be surprising that carting around several kilos of expensive paper and some models is not so compelling to players. Also 8th never had much of an identity among the various editions of Warhammer. Oldhammer fans tend to go for the fiddliness of 3rd or the herohammer of 5th.
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    Re: So, why isn't anyone just playing 8th edition?

    ...or the balanced-ness of 6th edition with Ravening Hordes.
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    Re: So, why isn't anyone just playing 8th edition?

    I'd like to play 8th.

    but...

    You're in 'merica. 'tis a bit far.

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    Veteran Sergeant sedgey's Avatar
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    Re: So, why isn't anyone just playing 8th edition?

    I still play 8th. It's the edition I started WFB in, and it's always worked for me.

    The 9th age looks to be where all the people who used to talk about "conga lines" migrated to. I wish them all the best with it, but the hyper-competitive environment and focus on "balance" don't appeal to me. Sure, I like a challenge in games, but I think the randomness of things like magic or O&G's Animosity add to the experience, and a game doesn't have to be balanced to be fun. I'll happily charge my Blood Dragon vampire lord into a Daemon Prince who'll probably slaughter him, because that's what he'd do in the Warhammer world, and because every so often I'll get to mount his head on my banner pole.

    Age of Sigmar doesn't have ranked units or the Warhammer world, and the rules are over-simplified. Again, no appeal.

    Neither Kings of War nor Warmachine are Warhammer, so hold no interest for me.

    At the end of the day, the other systems are irrelevant to me. I've got friends who still play 8th, I enjoy the game, models and settings, so I see no reason to change. If no-one I knew still played, then I'd have to look to another game system; thankfully it hasn't come to that yet.

    I think there are probably quite a lot of people still out there sticking with 8th, they're just not so vocal. When your game has been around for several years and is no longer supported with new rules / models, it's hard to motivate yourself to post much about it.

  6. #6
    Stick figure on a beach Arnizipal's Avatar
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    Re: So, why isn't anyone just playing 8th edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by sedgey View Post
    I still play 8th. It's the edition I started WFB in, and it's always worked for me.

    The 9th age looks to be where all the people who used to talk about "conga lines" migrated to. I wish them all the best with it, but the hyper-competitive environment and focus on "balance" don't appeal to me. Sure, I like a challenge in games, but I think the randomness of things like magic or O&G's Animosity add to the experience, and a game doesn't have to be balanced to be fun. I'll happily charge my Blood Dragon vampire lord into a Daemon Prince who'll probably slaughter him, because that's what he'd do in the Warhammer world, and because every so often I'll get to mount his head on my banner pole.

    Age of Sigmar doesn't have ranked units or the Warhammer world, and the rules are over-simplified. Again, no appeal.

    Neither Kings of War nor Warmachine are Warhammer, so hold no interest for me.

    At the end of the day, the other systems are irrelevant to me. I've got friends who still play 8th, I enjoy the game, models and settings, so I see no reason to change. If no-one I knew still played, then I'd have to look to another game system; thankfully it hasn't come to that yet.

    I think there are probably quite a lot of people still out there sticking with 8th, they're just not so vocal. When your game has been around for several years and is no longer supported with new rules / models, it's hard to motivate yourself to post much about it.
    My feelings on the matter exactly, except I started playing during the late days of 5th edition in 1998.
    6th edition is the one I love best, but 8th edition is the latest set of rules so that's what me and my buddy play.
    Between us we have 6 armies (Orcs & Goblins, Vampire Counts, Dark Elves, Lizardmen, Skaven and Beastmen) so there's enough variety
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    Re: So, why isn't anyone just playing 8th edition?

    Because it's not as simple, fast and flavourful as 4th.

    I mean, between Battle Magic, Arcane Magic, the Chaos box set and the Chronicles of War box set there are... 198 spells (across 19 schools of magic), 238 magic items, fistfuls of cool, colourful templates and counters, Chaos reward and gift cards and lots, lots more (great cardstock buildings, the best painting guides ever put out by GW ever, ever, tons of scenario packs, the coolest models they ever did in 'Eavy Metal!... the list goes on).

    How exactly do you compare to that??

  8. #8
    Chapter Master Bingo the Fun Monkey's Avatar
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    Re: So, why isn't anyone just playing 8th edition?

    Indeed, I do play Warmachine for it's tight rules and community engagement. I suppose Galadrin is right. My preferred edition would be Herohammer 5th edition, although I must confess I never tried 4th...and High Elves were quite overpowered in 5th edition.

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    Re: So, why isn't anyone just playing 8th edition?

    Warhammer 4th Edition was great! It's essentially the same rules as 5th Edition (the changes were very minor, more editorial than anything else, and you could pretty much count them on one hand). The difference, however, were the army books... 4th Edition army books did not have the power creep of 5th Edition. High Elves, for example, played really nicely in 4th. They had very few special rules (unlike 5th Edition), which allowed you to really experience the core game engine purring under the hood of WFB 4e. There was no "Citizen Levy," no special attacks for White Lions, no heavy armour rules, no special Leadership test rerolls, no bodyguard rules, no anti-Dark Elf riles. They played as a core army type, with fragile but effective infantry, elite cavalry, powerful one-man chariots, superior High magic and the excellent repeater bolt-thrower. They were a finesse army that needed a really good general, but paid dividends if you knew how to use them.

    In my mind, they played a little like a Classical Greek army in a historical wargame. "Outnumbered, outgunned... but never outclassed" to quote Bolt Thrower.
    Last edited by Galadrin; 24-12-2016 at 20:35.

  10. #10

    Re: So, why isn't anyone just playing 8th edition?

    I still love 8th edition but 9th Age is very well written and the rules make sense and are clarified. AOS on the other hand, well is a beer and pretzels game. If you want to play a game that is supported by GW and fights in a Cluster-******* fight in the middle. Stay with AOS lol.
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  11. #11
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    Re: So, why isn't anyone just playing 8th edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Cortez View Post
    I still love 8th edition but 9th Age is very well written and the rules make sense and are clarified. AOS on the other hand, well is a beer and pretzels game. If you want to play a game that is supported by GW and fights in a Cluster-******* fight in the middle. Stay with AOS lol.
    If you want a beer and pretzels game you should try kings of war. Compared to AoS its more streamlines and balanced, all the rules are contained in a single book for the basics, with 2 optional expansion books. Its still rank and file and movement matters, even more than warhammer. You can also use any models even in official tournaments unlike AoS.

    As for oldhammer (which 8th also is now really). I much prefer either the complexity and balance of 3rd, or simplified but still balanced 6th, especially if you use ravening horde lists.

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    Chapter Master Lorcryst's Avatar
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    Re: So, why isn't anyone just playing 8th edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Cortez View Post
    I still love 8th edition but 9th Age is very well written and the rules make sense and are clarified. AOS on the other hand, well is a beer and pretzels game. If you want to play a game that is supported by GW and fights in a Cluster-******* fight in the middle. Stay with AOS lol.
    Noooooope. Nope. Nope. Nope.

    If all your games of AoS devolve into a big melee in the middle of the board, you're not playing AoS.

    As for me, I started collecting minis in 4th ed, but only really started playing games with 6th ed ...

    6th ed : overpowered Heroes, useless O&G army, ubercombos for Chaos ... not very fun getting rolled over by the "must have, soooo good" armies.

    7th ed : ubermagic armies (Daemons, VC), half-inch shuffle, charge with fear causing outnumbering unit = win the game. Again, not fun when you're trying to play a thematic army, alone in a crowd of WAACers ...

    8th ed : the more models you have, the more you win. Even with my Night Goblins. A couple of units of 100 NGs and lots of shamans = win. Don't need an opponent, I-WIN-BUTTON can play alone. Still not really fun.

    And now I play AoS, and I actually enjoy it tremendously, it takes me back to my roots as a roleplayer, it's simple in appearance but surprisingly complex once you figure out the finer points of unit shapes and movement, you can play with everything you like, set yourself hard restrictions and STILL have a chance of winning, etc.

    I really don't understand the hate for this game, for me it's the best thing that happened in wargaming in the last three decades.

    To each their own I guess ...

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    Re: So, why isn't anyone just playing 8th edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorcryst View Post
    Noooooope. Nope. Nope. Nope.

    If all your games of AoS devolve into a big melee in the middle of the board, you're not playing AoS.

    As for me, I started collecting minis in 4th ed, but only really started playing games with 6th ed ...

    6th ed : overpowered Heroes, useless O&G army, ubercombos for Chaos ... not very fun getting rolled over by the "must have, soooo good" armies.

    7th ed : ubermagic armies (Daemons, VC), half-inch shuffle, charge with fear causing outnumbering unit = win the game. Again, not fun when you're trying to play a thematic army, alone in a crowd of WAACers ...

    8th ed : the more models you have, the more you win. Even with my Night Goblins. A couple of units of 100 NGs and lots of shamans = win. Don't need an opponent, I-WIN-BUTTON can play alone. Still not really fun.

    And now I play AoS, and I actually enjoy it tremendously, it takes me back to my roots as a roleplayer, it's simple in appearance but surprisingly complex once you figure out the finer points of unit shapes and movement, you can play with everything you like, set yourself hard restrictions and STILL have a chance of winning, etc.

    I really don't understand the hate for this game, for me it's the best thing that happened in wargaming in the last three decades.

    To each their own I guess ...

    Now, flame away WhineSeerites !
    Dude, you should reaaaaally try 4th Edition.

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    Chapter Master Lorcryst's Avatar
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    Re: So, why isn't anyone just playing 8th edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Galadrin View Post
    Dude, you should reaaaaally try 4th Edition.
    While I never had the chance to actually play, I had all the books and read them carefully ... and it didn't "click" with my wants and needs.

    Sorry, a bit too complex for my poor befuddled brain, and I was 14 years old at that moment, I just wanted to put my "RPG characters" on the table and roll some dice.

    And that's one of the reasons I like AoS so much, I finally can use a couple of minis, devise a scenario/battleplan, roll dice and avoid overloading my brain
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    Re: So, why isn't anyone just playing 8th edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorcryst View Post
    While I never had the chance to actually play, I had all the books and read them carefully ... and it didn't "click" with my wants and needs.

    Sorry, a bit too complex for my poor befuddled brain, and I was 14 years old at that moment, I just wanted to put my "RPG characters" on the table and roll some dice.

    And that's one of the reasons I like AoS so much, I finally can use a couple of minis, devise a scenario/battleplan, roll dice and avoid overloading my brain
    Rick Priestley has said that 4th Edition was always his favorite edition of Warhammer. If that's not a ringing endorsement, I don't know what is! You should give it another look!

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    Chapter Master Kakapo42's Avatar
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    Re: So, why isn't anyone just playing 8th edition?

    I think you also need to define exactly which '8th edition' you're talking about. For example, I would be totally down for a game of early 8th edition, with either pre-8th edition army books or just the first few 8th edition books, but because I love the 6th edition Wood Elf army book and hate the 8th edition one I wouldn't want a game of late 8th edition when the 8th edition Wood Elf book was a thing. ET supplements would also be right out for me (except maybe porting over the 50% on Lords thing because I like to lavish magic items on my characters).

    Aside from that though I'd mostly stick to late 6th edition and early 7th edition (the important thing for me is using the 6th edition Wood Elf book you see), or some hybrid of 6th and 8th since I like elements of both.
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    Re: So, why isn't anyone just playing 8th edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kakapo42 View Post
    I think you also need to define exactly which '8th edition' you're talking about. For example, I would be totally down for a game of early 8th edition, with either pre-8th edition army books or just the first few 8th edition books, but because I love the 6th edition Wood Elf army book and hate the 8th edition one I wouldn't want a game of late 8th edition when the 8th edition Wood Elf book was a thing. ET supplements would also be right out for me (except maybe porting over the 50% on Lords thing because I like to lavish magic items on my characters).

    Aside from that though I'd mostly stick to late 6th edition and early 7th edition (the important thing for me is using the 6th edition Wood Elf book you see), or some hybrid of 6th and 8th since I like elements of both.
    I think I've looked at the 6e Wood Elf book before... what did you find so compelling about it?

    For me, the 4th Edition Wood Elf book will always be the first, last and only Wood Elf book. It has the much superior first version of the Wood Elf fluff, great artwork and it lets you build your army with whatever you please. I've built an army with just Treemen and Emperor White Dragons which was a lot of fun (kind of like a monster hunt for the opponent) and Hellenic-style armies with just chariots and big blocks of Glade Guard spearmen (yes, Glade Guard are spearmen in 4e). I found later editions way too restrictive in army composition rules...

  18. #18
    Chapter Master Kakapo42's Avatar
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    Re: So, why isn't anyone just playing 8th edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Galadrin View Post
    I think I've looked at the 6e Wood Elf book before... what did you find so compelling about it?
    Well, the short answer is 'everything'.

    Funnily enough the first two points you list for your fondness of the 4th edition Wood Elf book are exactly the same as mine for the 6th edition one - I think the background in it is amazing (I love all the faerie and pseudo-celtic elements in it), and the artwork is incredible. I love the various special rules the army list had, which worked together to make the army play wonderfully close to how it's portrayed in the background (especially Asrai Archery, which effectively means that no Wood Elf unit should ever be staying still unless they're in close combat or a really, really good position). I love the Lore of Athel Loren, having a special magic lore that no other faction can use, drawn from the very power of the forest. I love the unique magic items in it, especially the Amaranthine Brooch which I always put on my General as a reference to my favourite song (Amaranth by Nightwish).

    But most of all, when I read the 6th edition Wood Elf book I get excited about building and using a Wood Elf army in Warhammer. The 8th one doesn't do that (indeed, reading the 8th one makes me feel angry, hurt, apathetic and reluctant all at the same time). Incidentally, the 6th edition Bretonnian book has the same effect, and I still remember when I first looked through it at a GW store and it honestly took all my strength not to start a Bretonnian army then and there.
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  19. #19
    Chapter Master StygianBeach's Avatar
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    Re: So, why isn't anyone just playing 8th edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kakapo42 View Post
    Aside from that though I'd mostly stick to late 6th edition and early 7th edition (the important thing for me is using the 6th edition Wood Elf book you see), or some hybrid of 6th and 8th since I like elements of both.
    The 6th ed Wood Elf book was brilliant for encouraging the Wood Elf army to play skirmish style. I was disappointed they they rolled Asrai Archery into the arrow upgrades in the 8th ed book.
    TMARichards had some great battle reports with his 6th ed Wood Elves in 8th ed, Sadly all his videos have been removed from youtube. He played MSU like crazy and every unit could be given redirection duty and be sacrificed on a whim.

    I was similarly disappointed with the 8th ed Dark Elves book, I was fed-up with the excessive re-rolls of the 7th ed book. Then the 8th ed book dropped and the number of re-rolls was doubled.

    I would happily have a game of 8th ed, but I would also be equally happy playing 5th or 7th. I think (as has already been pointed out) therein lies the rub.
    There are things that I like about all editions of Warhammer, so I would actually prefer some sort of hybrid of the editions. Of course my hybrid preference would be different to any other persons hybrid edition which creates gaming inertia that is easier to just avoid.

    I tried getting on board the 9th age train, but there were too many things I did not agree with (including certain name changes).

  20. #20
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    Re: So, why isn't anyone just playing 8th edition?

    I think that the problem with trying to play Warhammer/Oldhammer is that there are so many different editions and editions of army books. People prefer different army books due to the background or power level and different rules depending on the mechanics they prefer. Unfortunately GW never tried to perfect the game, just kept making it different. There is no one edition that a majority consider 'best' for people to rally around. People's preferences were less important when there was a current 'official' edition; despite any niggles you'd play the current rules. Now, why not go back and play the edition you prefer with the least niggles.

    It's difficult to get people into 8th as they may prefer a different version. If they have problems with 8th or feel their army has flaws, they probably want to play a different edition. There is no hope of a fresh army book or rules update to fix their complaints. There isn't the attraction of a huge player bases to push these concerns aside.

    If I wanted to play 8th, I would look to host the game. Provide both armies, that I'd balanced roughly against each other, with a crib sheet for both forces. That way you would only have to find someone that was interested in a game, not someone who'd sunk hours and hundreds of pounds into building an army.

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