The Future of Fantasy Massed Battle

[okami]

Having been away from wargaming for a while, I am curious where Warseer folks think the massed battle with minis scene is heading. Mantic's KoW seems to have stepped up with easy mechanics but odd to an old WFB player, and there are an abundance of miniature companies. I have several fantasy and 40K armies, but not sure what to do with them. Not really interested in rants on GW's bad behavior or long discussions of skirmish games. Trying to decide if GW and 40k are still for me right now, as this and Warmahorde seem to be what's played within 60 miles. The best advice I have seen so far is play what is being played locally, but play with people you like. But play what? Are there any massed battle fantasy or historical games being played in sufficient numbers that you can find an opponent? Or is there anything REALLY interesting on the horizon that is worth waiting for? I took a big flyer on CMON's Ice & Fire thinking that the minis might make a nice Kingdoms of Men army for KoW, but I am open to suggestions and appreciate any insight you folks might have. Thanks

Here, take a look at this:

https://www.the-ninth-age.com/

It is on the beta version of its 2.0 edition. Community driven, free-to-play, with decent numbers and a lot of us waiting until they release a stable version in the near future so we can keep playing with our old WHFB armies.

[dragonbreath]

Its possible that I live in some kind of paradise, though you probably wouldnt like it much; you might find it a bit crowded, and there aren't any bears.

Honestly, I wasn't really complaining about where I live or about the state of gaming or about GW's business practices. Indeed, I have mostly wonderful neighbors and living with bears and wolves is not too bad, as long as you keep alert. I was more curious if I would ever be able to let my warriors of Chaos cry havoc and run amok again. Still, an hour doesn't seem too bad to share the hobby with friendly folks. And while I'm sure the folks around Betelguese are lovely, and would never commit a crime, given the darkness of the human heart, and the current state of humanity, I'll take my chances with the mountain roads and the wildlife.

[dragonbreath]

Here, take a look at this:

https://www.the-ninth-age.com/

It is on the beta version of its 2.0 edition. Community driven, free-to-play, with decent numbers and a lot of us waiting until they release a stable version in the near future so we can keep playing with our old WHFB armies.

Stable version? Anything done by committee will probably never be stable, or quite right, but I wish them well. It was a magnificent effort. In the 2 nearest cities, I have yet to see Aos or Warmahordes played, though they are sold by both these FLGSs. MTG and Pokémon by the score, a couple of small groups of young men maybe 4 decades my junior playing 40k with unpainted models...nobody has even mentioned T9A. A few speak of Warhammer...wistfully, but without the support of a manufacturer it looks doubtful. Still, if I can find a group that plays T9A within a 100 miles and they're not tools, and they want another player, I'm in!

[Commissar von Toussaint]

Stable version? Anything done by committee will probably never be stable, or quite right, but I wish them well. It was a magnificent effort. In the 2 nearest cities, I have yet to see Aos or Warmahordes played, though they are sold by both these FLGSs. MTG and Pokémon by the score, a couple of small groups of young men maybe 4 decades my junior playing 40k with unpainted models...nobody has even mentioned T9A. A few speak of Warhammer...wistfully, but without the support of a manufacturer it looks doubtful. Still, if I can find a group that plays T9A within a 100 miles and they're not tools, and they want another player, I'm in!

Another option would be YOU to be the one introducing people to the game.

As for your desire for a stable game, I'm in complete agreement. My view is that the system should have a solid foundation and any changes should be in the area of corrections or clarifications.

Which is why I made Conqueror. I'm in the throes of a revision at the moment (I know I've been saying that for years, but I've actually ceased all other projects until this is done) to make it more accessible.

The revisions are mostly fixing minor things like tweaking spells, revising the magic item list and clarifying specific rules. Oh, and fixing typos.

But the core idea is that the system stays the same. None of this "now we use five models per rank" or the "army of the month" nonsense. In the first case, I don't make miniatures so I have zero interest in your purchases there. In the second case, I'm not tied to a specific background so you can shape your lists as you please.

As part of the update I was planning in including sample lists (elves, orcs, etc.) but I'm now leaning towards creating a bestiary like the old 5th ed. WFHB did so that people can build custom lists of whatever they want. For example, why can't a Dark Lord have both chaos knights and orcs in his retinue? Or why wouldn't a necromancer also be able to summon demons along with his skeletons and ghosts?

I guess it's sort of a GURPS for massed battles - no specific setting, but you can modify it to suit whatever you want to do. Since the points system seems to be working out well, balance so far hasn't been much of an issue. Worth a look, at any rate.

[dragonbreath]

"Another option would be YOU to be the one introducing people to the game."

I actually am beginning to think this a greater idea than people who have suggested it to me think. I had this point driven home to me today. An eager young man 5 decades my junior was looking for someone just to be friendly and play a game for fun. We just talked 40k and fantasy but it was like being adopted. I have already met two FLGS managers in my business travels who are amenable to this idea.

I don't know what route my fantasy travails will take...I even regret to admit I am thinking of playing 8th ed. 40k...which actually does seem an improvement but of course GW is already muddying the waters with Primaris marines and new codexes. Ah, well...but I will take a run at one of your books and if you hammer out a hardcopy of your rules you are satisfied with, let me know. I will buy a copy.

[2DSick]

Having been away from wargaming for a while, I am curious where Warseer folks think the massed battle with minis scene is heading. Mantic's KoW seems to have stepped up with easy mechanics but odd to an old WFB player, and there are an abundance of miniature companies. I have several fantasy and 40K armies, but not sure what to do with them. Not really interested in rants on GW's bad behavior or long discussions of skirmish games. Trying to decide if GW and 40k are still for me right now, as this and Warmahorde seem to be what's played within 60 miles. The best advice I have seen so far is play what is being played locally, but play with people you like. But play what? Are there any massed battle fantasy or historical games being played in sufficient numbers that you can find an opponent? Or is there anything REALLY interesting on the horizon that is worth waiting for? I took a big flyer on CMON's Ice & Fire thinking that the minis might make a nice Kingdoms of Men army for KoW, but I am open to suggestions and appreciate any insight you folks might have. Thanks

KoW is a great slick game that scratches an itch... but that's it. It satisfies an urge to play something else. Is hasn't made its own itch, it's scratching something elses.

9th age was exactly the same but that's heading in a completely differet direction and on I'd rather avoid despite enjoying it in its early days.

The future of mass battle? is right here... 2 months time. Conquest! it's conquered my heart already with the game, world and lore. The price point is just the icing on the cake. (80 Euro for th e80 mini 2 player starter)

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforu...50/740261.page
https://www.facebook.com/ParaBellumWarGames/

On this thread you will find artwork, lore & faction chat videos as well as a how to play and a full scale batrep.

I've been following it since inception and it was the opening statement that pricked my ears up. It'was like they were talking to me alone...

"We are here to introduce you to a new strategy battle system that will provide seasoned wargamers and new-to-the-hobby cadets with a fun, easy to play and yet deeply tactical table-top wargame.

Although we are all mature adults and hobby enthusiasts , we are scared of the monster in our cupboard. We are scared of the dark side of the moon. We are scared that somewhere in North K they have stolen our plans and are trying to create a Brute. We are scared of the scale of the project. But it’s because we care. We care about the hobby. We care about your budget. We care if you didn’t sleep well last night and if your paintbrush has lost so many bristles that you need a new one. We care about your car, your toothbrush and if your significant other ever finds out about how much you spent for all the models in your storage.

That is why we, a ragtag group including gamers who’s ‘proper’ jobs are artists, sculptors and writers, have grouped up with Riverhorse studios to bring you the game we call Conquest. That is why we have toiled for hours upon end, going over every little detail of the miniatures to impress all gamers, including ourselves.

We have made the Clone heads bigger, then smaller, then bigger again just so that it could match the image in the head of their perfectionist creator. We painted the Brutes a million different colour schemes to find one that would be more pleasing on the eyes. We have changed the bases so many times that we have lost count. The size of the Men-at-arms sword has ranged between that of a small dagger to a mighty Scottish claymore. We have spent hours playtesting the game again and again, so much that when we see a modular table we feel nauseous. We have debated the use of pink colour on one of our most vicious units and even though it looked fabulous we decided against it.

We have literally bled in order to prepare and display our work. But we have managed to endure this and carry on doing it because we are addicted. Addicted to the hobby. There is no time left over, because we love the smell of miniature plastic in the morning. Our kids don’t see us and our girlfriends go as far as Central America to get away.

It is our Passion that will not allow us to let this baby go. Bear with us, because the scale of what we are striving to achieve is immense. This is going to be a good one."

and a quote from Leo about the future of this world, Eá;

“Of course there’s more! This is a fantasy world and, as such, it is filled with fantasy races. We have the undead coming soon, savage semi-primitives with an affinity to War, oriental emperors and warlords, near-immortals who bond with the land, a magocratic cabal ruling over the barren continent that they themselves have raised… and those are just the next few.

We built an entire world based on reading and enjoying the same books you have, having been raised with and forged by the same fantasy culture. All the beloved tropes are there, woven into the fabric of our own world.”

I'm very excited!

[Commissar von Toussaint]

The future of mass battle? is right here... 2 months time. Conquest! it's conquered my heart already with the game, world and lore. The price point is just the icing on the cake. (80 Euro for th e80 mini 2 player starter)

Wait, Conquest?

That's what you get by winning Conqueror: Fields of Victory, right?

Hmmm.

Oh well, the more the merrier. I don't sell figures, I just sell rules. If anyone wants to follow the evolution of Conqueror, btw, it happened right here on this very site.

The Second Edition should be out fairly soon. I've finalized the spell lists and magic items, and have just about locked down the Beastiary. That's tough, because every time I play a game, I think of a new unit I could make and want to include it in the rules. I have to draw the line somewhere, though.

Price point will likely stay $2.99 for electronic copy. Not sure what the paperback will be since the Beastiary is adding a number of pages. I won't know till I get the formatted edition submitted.

It may not be the future of massed battles, but it will be an inexpensive alternative.

[The_Real_Chris]

As an aside - at Salute Runewars was on sale for £35 so doesn't seem to have taken off...

[2DSick]

As an aside - at Salute Runewars was on sale for £35 so doesn't seem to have taken off...

Yeah, not at all. Or at least at firat it had a lot of interest but FFG don't seem to have much of an attention span and depite interest it was let down by a complete lack of support both with new releases, articles, community support etc. Just nothing. Shame really.

[dragonbreath]

Thanks all, especially 2DSick. I am embarrassed to say I actually broke out my Ultramarines to play with some old friends on a business trip. It was fun, but those guys at GW are sure rascals. They just can't seem to get a balanced ruleset together and the shifting meta is annoying to keep up with.

I am cautiously excited about Para Bellum, but curious why they chose the larger scale instead of the ubiquitous 28mm sized models.

Has anyone played Mierce's Darklands yet? I like their models (resin) but I know it's only skirmish and the chance of getting started where I live is very slim. Which (sigh) is probably the fate Conquest will suffer...

Anyway, thanks again to all for the links and the input. I do appreciate it. My last fantasy game was KoW spring of last year. (I've been busy) I may have found a gaming group within a hundred miles so Hope springs eternal. My best to you all.

[Little Joe]

Why be ashamed if you had fun?

I do not trust GW to make a balanced game, it is a sales tool and I accept that. Of course as a potential customer I have different expectations and some companies actually try to please customers. I know many think GW has changed, they did not. Same old just wrapped up pretty.

Mierce's Darklands has build up a product line way larger than I ever expected. Beautiful miniatures for sure but I am one of those people treated badly by Rob when Maelstrom Games had a sale just before going belly up. It's a personal thing, I won't touch it.

Para Bellum has good reviews so far. I am a bit iffy about the scale, the story is fresh enough for sure. Miniatures look good and I think it will have it's chance.

From the USA there is this app now, GameFor. T9A has a player's map as well, which is helps finding people even if it is not for T9A.

[dragonbreath]

Actually, the word I used was embarrassed, mostly for buying into the notion that the 40k 8th ed. is actually balanced. I think it was more wishful thinking on the part of my old gaming friends who quit playing 40k in favor of fantasy, only to have GW blow up the old world a few years later. If I had checked the forums and rules a little more carefully I would have figured out what GW was doing a little sooner. The 7 flying hive tyrant lists were a pretty good clue. Still, I did have fun, but I am back to looking waiting pining for massed battle even historical if I wasn't so limited by geography...

Agree that Mierce makes fine miniatures and also agree that the scale Para Bellum chose has thrown me off a little bit. Thanks for the GameFor suggestion and I am thinking about T9A after the busy season subsides. Geography, again, is the real limit to whether these apps will be useful. Not a big fan of high population density.

Enjoyed your project thread...you have to love goblins...best wishes

[Rogue]

In my search for a supported replacement for WAB, I found War and Conquest:

http://warandconquest.co.uk/

The proprietor of WAC, Rob, does have a supplement that he made for fantasy gaming as well. While I do contend that this this is a supplement, and not specifically core rules, I tend to think that this is another avenue to look into. More specifically of someone is looking for a set of core rules that work in both Fantasy and Historical, which is what I am looking toward. Having said that, I would like to see how Oathmark is shaping up, along with Conquest, and Conquerer. At one time I was looking for a list of fantasy mass battle games, and realized that there are a ton of them out there. Many of them are just not my taste. Only time will tell how popular one set will be.

[Commissar von Toussaint]

The revised edition of Conqueror is finally ready. Click on the link in my signature and check it out. Or click here.

[Rogue]

The revised edition of Conqueror is finally ready. Click on the link in my signature and check it out. Or click here.

I was thinking of getting a copy once it is revised. Now that it is here, I will take a look.

[coldsteel]

Yeah, not at all. Or at least at firat it had a lot of interest but FFG don't seem to have much of an attention span and depite interest it was let down by a complete lack of support both with new releases, articles, community support etc. Just nothing. Shame really.

And now they've cancelled tournament support and rumors abound that they're dropping Runewars entirely. Sucks.

[Commissar von Toussaint]

And now they've cancelled tournament support and rumors abound that they're dropping Runewars entirely. Sucks.

The nice thing with small operations is you don't have to wonder about this. Anyone who wants to know more about Conqueror can reach the designer/CEO/Grand Vizier/Lord High Admiral directly.

And if you ask nicely, I'll build a custom list to your specifications. It's not like I haven't done it before. I do appreciate people buying the book first, though.

[Bayonet&Ricochet]

Our Company Bayonet & Ricochet Miniatures is working on something similar to what you're looking for. You can check out our progress here https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1021609411