[8th Edition] Lizardmen rules question: Mixed units and excess wounds

[Arnizipal]

If the Kroxigors in a mixed Skink Cohort are targeted in close combat, do excess wounds pass on from one Kroxigor to the next or are the wounds lost like when you target a champion outside a challenge? If you inflict more unsaved wounds than the Kroxigors have left, are excess wounds lost?

And a bit of an unrelated question: can the Skinks use the Leadership of the Kroxigors instead of their own for breaktests and pyschology tests?

My gut feeling tells me its "yes" to all three questions but I'd thought I'd check.

[Weez]

If a the Kroxigors in a mixed Skink Cohort are targeted in close combat, do excess wounds pass on from one Kroxigor to the next (or are the wounds lost like when you target a champion outside a challenge)? If you inflict more unsaved wounds than the Kroxigors have left, are excess wounds lost?

And a bit of an unrelated question: can the Skinks use the Leadership of the Kroxigors instead of their own for breaktests and pyschology tests?

My gut feeling tells me its "yes" to all three questions but I'd thought I'd check.

I actually I'm not 100% sure on this one as I haven't played Lizardmen ever, believe it or not. My suggestion would be to ask here: There's a resident rules guy that knows his stuff. Plus, all we talk is 8th Edition http://eefl.freeforums.net/

[Ultimate Life Form]

As per the core rules, units always use the best available stat when taking tests, so yes, since the Kroxigors have the highest Leadership in the unit theirs is used unless superseded by a joined Character or the General.

As for the other part of the question; even though it is usually irrelevant, in theory you have to declare for every single model in a fight whom it attacks. The options are usually limited to enemies in base contact, though in the case of Kroxigors this may not apply.

So let's say you declare all your attacks against Kroxigors and score enough wounds to kill them outright. That means that any excess wounds that you have scored are lost since any given model cannot lose more wounds than it has to begin with (except in the case of Overkill in challenges). The "floating wounds" rule applies only to models with more than one wound. Skinks have only 1 wound so do not count for purposes of this rule. Since in this example no Skinks were attacked, that means no Skinks will die. If you want something to die you need to target it directly. Correct attack allocation against compound units is a very important aspect of combat.

[Arnizipal]

As per the core rules, units always use the best available stat when taking tests, so yes, since the Kroxigors have the highest Leadership in the unit theirs is used unless superseded by a joined Character or the General.

Agreed. Though I find the image of a Skink following orders of a slow-witted Kroxigor a bit strange

As for the other part of the question; even though it is usually irrelevant, in theory you have to declare for every single model in a fight whom it attacks. The options are usually limited to enemies in base contact, though in the case of Kroxigors this may not apply.

The reason I ask is because in a Skink Cohort you can have a Kroxigor for every 8 Skinks.
My opponent fields them in units of 28 Skinks, each including at least 2 Kroxigors.

So I attack the unit and have 10 attacks. Due to my position I can split them between regular Skinks or one of the Kroxigors.
Say I allocate 5 attacks to the Kroxigor and kill it, do the two excess wounds pass on to the other (out of reach) Kroxigor just as if I had killed more Skinks than were in base contact? Or is only the Kroxigor I can reach killed and excess wounds lost because it would be like targeting a champion in a unit (which Kroxigors sort of are I guess)?

I guess a similar situation would occur in mixed units of Troll and Giant Slayers (although they may not be multi-wound models).

[Little Joe]

Giant slayers are in the front and get killed first.

I would treat it like old monsters with a split profile, no carry over. Here it is more difficult, I would pass on the wounds on Kroxigors and treat the whole unit as the monster part.

[LiveWaaaaagh]

Agreed. Though I find the image of a Skink following orders of a slow-witted Kroxigor a bit strange


The reason I ask is because in a Skink Cohort you can have a Kroxigor for every 8 Skinks.
My opponent fields them in units of 28 Skinks, each including at least 2 Kroxigors.

So I attack the unit and have 10 attacks. Due to my position I can split them between regular Skinks or one of the Kroxigors.
Say I allocate 5 attacks to the Kroxigor and kill it, do the two excess wounds pass on to the other (out of reach) Kroxigor just as if I had killed more Skinks than were in base contact? Or is only the Kroxigor I can reach killed and excess wounds lost because it would be like targeting a champion in a unit (which Kroxigors sort of are I guess)?

I guess a similar situation would occur in mixed units of Troll and Giant Slayers (although they may not be multi-wound models).

There wouldn't carry over, I don't believe.

[hardyworld]

Lizardmen player here.

Attacks assigned to Kroxigors do transfer wounds onto other Kroxigors in the unit, but do not transfer to skinks. So if your character in the front rank applies 4 wounds on a kroxigor, that Kroxigor is dead and the remaining wounds are applied to the kroxigor next to him; if there isn't any more kroxigor left in the unit, the extra wounds are wasted and do NOT get transferred to the skinks in the unit.

When assigning your attacks against Kroxigor in the 2nd rank (allowed by the Spawn-Kin rule), note that ONLY your models in the front rank can attack assign attacks against the kroxigor. Your supporting attacks CANNOT attack a kroxigor unless your front rank is in base contact with the kroxigor.

Shameless plug for Lizardmen FAQ that provides Rules As Written answers (an errata should have been provided to better address some of the questions).: Lizardmen 8th Ed. FAQ

[Arnizipal]

Thanks for the info (and the FAQ link)

When assigning your attacks against Kroxigor in the 2nd rank (allowed by the Spawn-Kin rule), note that ONLY your models in the front rank can attack assign attacks against the kroxigor. Your supporting attacks CANNOT attack a kroxigor unless your front rank is in base contact with the kroxigor.

I'm a bit puzzled about this sentence though.
Isn't it always the case that supporting models can only attack if the models in front of them can attack?

[hardyworld]

When assigning your attacks against Kroxigor in the 2nd rank (allowed by the Spawn-Kin rule), note that ONLY your models in the front rank can attack assign attacks against the kroxigor. Your supporting attacks CANNOT attack a kroxigor unless your front rank is in base contact with the kroxigor.

I'm a bit puzzled about this sentence though.
Isn't it always the case that supporting models can only attack if the models in front of them can attack?

Supporting attacks are from models in the 2nd (or 3rd or 4th) rank. Supporting attacks allow these models to attack enemy models in the enemy model's front rank. The Spawn-kin rule specifically allows models in base contact with a skink in the front rank the option to direct attacks against Kroxigor in the 2nd rank directly behind the skink. Attacks directed in this way (in accordance with the Spawn-kin rule) may only be done by the front rank, supporting attacks from ranks behind do NOT meet the requirements of the Spawn-kin rule to allow the option to direct attacks against the Kroxigor. There is no transferable application that would allow supporting attacks use the Spawn-kin rule to attack Kroxigors in the 2nd rank.

Obviously if the front rank ARE in base contact with Kroxigor (via kroxigors moving to the front rank due to lots of dead skinks or a flank/rear attack on the unit by the enemy's rank and file unit), supporting attacks may direct attacks against the Kroxigor as normal because those attacks are allowed by the Supporting Attacks rule to be applied that way and the Spawn-kin rule is not applicable in this scenario.

Hopefully that clears up the confusion. Sorry for the late response.

[Arnizipal]

Thanks for the reply.
I understand what you were explaining now