Page 1 of 9 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 190

Thread: Old World will Officially live again!

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1

    Old World will Officially live again!

    Dear Warseer!

    THE OLD WORLD IS RESSURECTED!

    It was never a question I know, but still its good to hear. We have to wait for a bit, but its comming. https://www.warhammer-community.com/...new-warhammer/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7I_WjlLgEM

    Long live the Old World!

    Lond live the Karaz Ankor!
    Last edited by herjan1987; 15-11-2019 at 19:55.

  2. #2
    Chapter Master DarthSte's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    2,627

    Re: Old World will Officially live again!

    I saw the bulletin too. This is great news.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypaspist View Post
    The Evil Darth Ste (or TEDS as all shall now call him!)

  3. #3
    Chapter Master Lost Egg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Wandering in the wilderness...
    Posts
    2,660

    Re: Old World will Officially live again!

    I assume this has come about as a result of the survey, especially with the 3+ years lead time.

    I wonder what the scale of the project will be...the returning Sisters of Battle was announced 2 years ahead of release so this is presumably more than just a rule book. Given the comparison to the Horus Heresy we should definitely be seeing a range of minis but we will have to wait and see how divorced from the AoS line they are; the Cities of Sigmar book has meant that at least the core of a number of WFB armies are still available.

  4. #4
    Chapter Master Urgat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Paris
    Posts
    19,564

    Re: Old World will Officially live again!

    I assume the reason is the one they tell in the mail, really. Total War (and to a lesser extent Verminetide) is a massive success, and they're seeing the incredible missed opportunity, and figured they might do something for the release of the third game, in order to at least capitalize on some of said success.

  5. #5
    Inquisitor Lord Damocles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Birmingham, UK
    Posts
    8,692

    Re: Old World will Officially live again!

    I'd still be extremely cautious about getting at all hyped up for this.

    We know nothing about what it actually entails, and if there's one thing we should have learned long ago about GW, it's that they are more than capable of over-hyping very weak releases, and being economical with the truth. GW are very good at cashing in on fan goodwill long before they ever have to actually deliver on any product - and more often than not that product turns out to be deeply flawed (see also: the edition of 40k we apparently asked for).

    Even if it is just The Horus Heresy for Age of Sigmar, exactly how well is the Heresy setting doing these days? The plastic releases seem to have largely died on arrival, and have all ended up just folded back into the 40k range with no further expansion, rules support has slowed to a relative crawl, and many units which have rules don't look like they're ever going to be getting models (Sisters of Silence...)

    Three years is a long time for GW, who haven't exactly proven themselves adverse to flipping 180 degrees on decisions within far shorter timespans.

  6. #6
    Chapter Master Little Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    2,593

    Re: Old World will Officially live again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Urgat View Post
    I assume the reason is the one they tell in the mail, really. Total War (and to a lesser extent Verminetide) is a massive success, and they're seeing the incredible missed opportunity, and figured they might do something for the release of the third game, in order to at least capitalize on some of said success.
    Or they simply want to secure future royalties from selling the IP. That's a hefty part of their yearly profits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Damocles View Post
    I'd still be extremely cautious about getting at all hyped up for this.

    We know nothing about what it actually entails, and if there's one thing we should have learned long ago about GW, it's that they are more than capable of over-hyping very weak releases, and being economical with the truth. GW are very good at cashing in on fan goodwill long before they ever have to actually deliver on any product - and more often than not that product turns out to be deeply flawed (see also: the edition of 40k we apparently asked for).

    Even if it is just The Horus Heresy for Age of Sigmar, exactly how well is the Heresy setting doing these days? The plastic releases seem to have largely died on arrival, and have all ended up just folded back into the 40k range with no further expansion, rules support has slowed to a relative crawl, and many units which have rules don't look like they're ever going to be getting models (Sisters of Silence...)

    Three years is a long time for GW, who haven't exactly proven themselves adverse to flipping 180 degrees on decisions within far shorter timespans.
    We know nothing and aside from an image the announcement was used to push AoS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lost Egg View Post
    I assume this has come about as a result of the survey, especially with the 3+ years lead time.

    I wonder what the scale of the project will be...the returning Sisters of Battle was announced 2 years ahead of release so this is presumably more than just a rule book. Given the comparison to the Horus Heresy we should definitely be seeing a range of minis but we will have to wait and see how divorced from the AoS line they are; the Cities of Sigmar book has meant that at least the core of a number of WFB armies are still available.
    I am too busy to speculate, will see when it comes around. If it gets more people into R&F fantasy, good enough by me.
    my general project thread

    [2020] painted: 0

  7. #7
    Chapter Master Urgat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Paris
    Posts
    19,564

    Re: Old World will Officially live again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Damocles View Post
    many units which have rules don't look like they're ever going to be getting models (Sisters of Silence...)
    You mean, those not-models?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lost Egg View Post
    FW have now dropped the Fimir from their website; someone from the Fimir FB group contacted them and they confirmed they had been pulled permanently.

    I don't really have any level of expectation beyond being generally intrigued.
    FW likes to ax stuff regularly, so I dunno what it means. At the very least GW greenlighted fimirs in Total War, so they're still a-ok in their books obviously.

    As much as I love my square bases, not using the current round bases sounds like a stupid idea to me. GW can just go War of the Ring's way for the units, with round bases. Why make people rebase their units again? I can easily use my 20mm square based gobs in AoS, it really doesn't change much, from what I understand of the rules. Could I do the opposite (25mm round base gobs in 8th ed)? No, the impact of the base difference is massive.
    Well, I guess there's no point speculating for now, let's wait and see, they said "more news soon", so we won't have to wait three years to know more, at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karak Norn Clansman View Post
    Something I'm very curious about, is whether Games Workshop will take the chance to delve into more areas of the Warhammer World. Albion, Vampire Coast or Cathay, for instance.
    I expect they're going to do the opposite, focus on the Old World, and forget about the rest (Lustria and so on). Maybe they'll expand later if it works, but I don't think they chose "Old World" as a name for no reason.
    Last edited by Urgat; 17-11-2019 at 14:58.

  8. #8
    Inquisitor Lord Damocles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Birmingham, UK
    Posts
    8,692

    Re: Old World will Officially live again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Urgat View Post
    You mean, those not-models?
    I mean:
    - Oblivion Knight Centura
    - Silent Judge
    - Excrutiatus Cadre
    - Oblivion Knight Cadre
    - Pursuit Cadre plus jackals & hawks
    - Seeker Cadre with grenade launchers
    - any of the Superiors' weapon options

  9. #9
    Chapter Master Rogue Star's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    The Floating Isles of Talbion
    Posts
    2,253

    Re: Old World will Officially live again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Damocles View Post
    I mean:
    - Oblivion Knight Centura
    - Silent Judge
    - Excrutiatus Cadre
    - Oblivion Knight Cadre
    - Pursuit Cadre plus jackals & hawks
    - Seeker Cadre with grenade launchers
    - any of the Superiors' weapon options
    To be fair to Urgat (who I gather isn't a WH40K follower), your comment should be that it's less "There are no Sisters of Silence models" and more "The Sisters of Silence still aren't a full independent army".

    Quote Originally Posted by Urgat View Post
    You mean, those not-models?
    Damocles refers to the SoS Horus Heresy era ruleset, which includes a number of units that FW/GW still haven't produced, but I thought it was accepted that there's more profit in making Legion specific Praetors than adding to the Null Maidens...


    As for this announcement... there's a lot to unpack here.

    Initial thoughts... ehh, it'll be good for GW to update various other WHFB models like they've done with the upcoming Slaves to Darkness/Warriors of Chaos. I did notice suspiciously that among all the severed heads and skulls they carried, there wasn't a single Stormcast Eternal helmet (which you'd think they'd be eager to get, as it's their main antagonist throughout the realms) which made me wonder if this army's renders were leftovers from some idea for WHFB going forward before they settled on Age of Sigmar... now it looks like the intention is to make them backwards compatible with NuWHFB and AoS, so GW have been considering this for awhile.

    For me this offers nothing; I have little to zero interest in a rank-an-flank game, and nothing about bringing back the Old World enhances Age of Sigmar to me like the Horus Heresy does for WH40K... there's too much disconnect there.

    It'd have worked if they re-wrote AoS origins, to make the Old World the "Age of Myth" and the "Age of Chaos" Archaon's destruction of the former, just make the scattered realms some event of that...

    As it is there was the Old World, which got swallowed into the Realm of Chaos until all that was left of the former was it's metallic core, which drifted through the Sea of Souls until it came to rest, where the altered Winds of Magic flowed around it to make the Realms, which acted as a lodestone, drawing back the adrift souls to their memories so "Dwarves, Orks, Elves and Men" awoke in a primitive state in these strange new but familiar lands, and Sigmar and the Incarnates had ascended to godhood...

    Then we have a whole age of rebuilding to Khardron Overlords levels of magitech, then the Age of Chaos smashing it all back down to mostly swords and shields and axes... then the Age of Sigmar.

    It doesn't flow as naturally as say, a board-game made during the Horus Heresy, as a retro-version of Space Hulk, where Cataphractii Terminators engage in combat with the retro-leech-Genestealers... you can see how the Terminators and Genestealers will evolve from these things, less so how an Empire Militia Man will becomes a Lightning powered Fantasy-Astartes...
    Last edited by Rogue Star; 18-11-2019 at 04:08.
    “Hell is empty and all the devils are here.” - William Shakespeare
    “Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torment of man.” - Friedrich Nietzsche
    “We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell.” - Oscar Wilde

  10. #10
    Chapter Master Lost Egg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Wandering in the wilderness...
    Posts
    2,660

    Re: Old World will Officially live again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Star View Post
    I did notice suspiciously that among all the severed heads and skulls they carried, there wasn't a single Stormcast Eternal helmet...
    There is one on the flank of the Chaos Lord's beastie...you can see it on the video when they spin the mini round.


    But yeah, it does lack the flow of the Horus Heresy & 40k relationship. The announcement feels odd, like why blow it up then bring it back...is it just nostalgia, is it simply another part of the IP to exploit, is it about trying to reduce lure of the competition or are the sales of AoS disappointing? Part of the rumour overs WFBs destruction was concern over how much was copyrightable so why go back; this argument has never really washed for me anyway as no one seems to have any trouble ripping off 40ks designs. Plus its odd that now the ranges of AoS have kinda settled (well once the announced Battle Tomes are all released) they announce WFB return or at least a version of it.

    I'm not a fan of rank n'file games either but I'm still interested...nowadays I spend far more time looking at the continuing GW saga than I do painting any of their minis or playing their games.

  11. #11
    Chapter Master Urgat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Paris
    Posts
    19,564

    Re: Old World will Officially live again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Urgat View Post
    I expect they're going to do the opposite, focus on the Old World, and forget about the rest (Lustria and so on). Maybe they'll expand later if it works, but I don't think they chose "Old World" as a name for no reason.
    I want to go back on that, because, well, there's a map in the article, after all:


    I expect the game to cover precisely this.
    I think we can safely rule the Darklands out. Considering how the map is cut, though, Albion is clearly in. So we got, for sure, what I said before:
    The Empire (the Empire -heh)
    The Dwarfs (World Edge Mountains)
    The Orcs and Goblins - at the very least, the night goblins - (Badlands, World Edge Mountains)
    The wood Elves (Athel Loren)
    Chaos (Norsca)
    Vampire Counts (Sylvania)
    Skaven (Skavenblight, also, well, everywhere)
    Lizardmen (Albion - it'd be silly to set it before Dark Shadows, unless GW has plans to sell an army of giants and druids, which somehow I doubt)

    Does this sound right so far?

    There's four problematic spots, though.
    Bretonnia, of course. Also, Tilea, Estalia, and Kislev. While in the grand scheme of things, it wasn't a big problem to ignore them completely, on such a smaller scale, they kind of become the elephant in the room. The four combined make up for almost a third of the landmass, more than the Empire.
    Now there's a way to ignore the four of them... if WoW is set smack in the middle of End Times:
    Kislev is Chaos, Bretonnia is mostly undead, Estalia and Tilea are Skaven. Also this enables Nagash and his mortarchs, and both HE and DE (Athel Loren, again). Also it enables the Dark Lands to actually be included, as greenskins + Ogres.
    Thoughts? Can you see GW being this cynical? Because that would be, well, very, very cynical to bring back the Old World during ET... but at the same time it seems so... well... convenient? Only thing is, Albion. At that point, I'm not sure it's still around, I wonder if it's not been destroyed when Ulthuan sunk. Well, not only thing, two things. Second being: would they use a clean, basic map for an ET time-line?
    Last edited by Urgat; 23-11-2019 at 05:05.

  12. #12
    Veteran Sergeant
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    87

    Re: Old World will Officially live again!

    There are Lizardmen in the Southlands, it is totally possible that they could show up through there. Also with High and Dark Elves both being seafaring races, it isn't unreasonable to assume they could show up as well.

  13. #13
    Chapter Master Karak Norn Clansman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Karak Norn
    Posts
    3,746

    Re: Old World will Officially live again!

    Something I'm very curious about, is whether Games Workshop will take the chance to delve into more areas of the Warhammer World. Albion, Vampire Coast or Cathay, for instance.



    Nippon in the 1980s, not seen in miniature form ever since.

    This could be especially doable if the new Warhammer Fantasy take is more limited in scope than the vast army books of the past, with all their demands for miniature kits. The army book format in and of itself became a creative straitjacket for the GW studio. In the 1980s, they were free to release a handful of new figures whenever they felt like it, and thus explore Nippon, Halflings, Norsca, Fimir or a plethora of monsters with small investment of resources. In the 1990s-2000s, they were increasingly bound up in the demands of the army book threadmill. If they wanted to release something new, it had to either be a complete new army, or just something small on the spin-off side such as specialist games and Dreadfleet (for which the market wasn't good in those days, or at least marketing under Kirby wasn't up to the task) or summer campaign miniatures such as the Hellcannon, Middenheim and Albion miniatures delving into niche concepts.



    Kislev during 6th edition: A mini-army, later unsupported.

    We did see Dogs of War and Chaos Dwarfs as a small new army in the 1990s (unsupported after 5th edition up to 8th), and a small army for Kislev in 6th edition, unsupported thereafter. Warmaster sported Araby, but Warmaster was not a great hit. Ogre Kingdoms was the one new big army, or one of two if you count the Daemons of Chaos' expanded range, and it needed an entire miniature range.



    Chaos Dwarfs: 1990s army, yet left out in the cold for most of Warhammer Fantasy.

    Then there were fun thematic armies in White Dwarf, such as Kemmler's Barrow legion, Vampire Coast, Clan Moulder and the Gnoblar Horde. Building on existing modelling ranges and often requiring conversions: Which was part of the fun, for sure, but ensured it stayed a tiny niche and opened up for small companies to produce models GW weren't. This problem of inviting in the small competition to open new niches was much exacerbated when studio designers during 7th edition introduced new units in army lists which did not yet sport official models, such as Forsaken.



    Dreadfleet: One last exploratory hurrah before the End Times.

    This commercial bind ultimately put dampeners on Warhammer's creative potential: It is huge, and can be explored to much greater extent with a more limited setup than army book-threadmill WHFB of old. But ultimately GW would want to produce models for anything peripheral they delve into, and that mean they may well shy away from introducing more things on the periphery of the background, to not give competitors possible bones to snatch.



    Fimir: A weird 1980s creation because the CEO wanted Warhammer to have its very own fantasy race. Resurrected lately by Forgeworld after decades of hibernation.

    So there may be little in the way of brand new additions to the glorious setting, such as Inca Dwarfs in Lustria, fantasy Songhai and so on. And there may potentially also be little in the way of covering already existing periphery stuff such as Khureshi Nagas, Albion, Ind, Norsca and so on; this obviously depends on commercial success, how limited in scope the new game and miniature ranges will be, and on budget or will within the studio.

    This is a long-standing limit to driving the creative potential of Games Workshop's own grimdark, historically based, classic fantasy smörgåsbord setting to the hilt. It remains to be seen if and how GW will tackle this obstacle.

    Cheers

  14. #14
    Chapter Master Lost Egg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Wandering in the wilderness...
    Posts
    2,660

    Re: Old World will Officially live again!

    FW have now dropped the Fimir from their website; someone from the Fimir FB group contacted them and they confirmed they had been pulled permanently.

    I don't really have any level of expectation beyond being generally intrigued.

  15. #15
    Chapter Master Lost Egg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Wandering in the wilderness...
    Posts
    2,660

    Re: Old World will Officially live again!

    I was thinking about this again this morning and a thought occurred about the new Chaos Warriors...with big enough square bases they would rank up quite well, so I wonder what size any new WoW minis will be. Having a rank n'file games with larger minis could be unwieldy but it'd make sense that at least some of the minis would cross over between AoS & WoW.

    Maybe 40mm or new 30mm square bases could be used.

  16. #16

    Re: Old World will Officially live again!

    A key difference between Horus Heresy and the Old World was that the Heresy was always background, something referenced but not hugely supported while the Old World was in fact the mainstay of the company for decades.

    Dumping it completely was dumb.

    Though I don't play AoS and now rely on my own (superior!) miniatures rules, I welcome its revival because it will help pull people back into fantasy gaming and also likely push minis onto the secondary market so I can add new forces to my collection.
    Want a better way to fight fantasy battles? Try the revised and expanded Conqueror: Fields of Victory!

    Do you like Star Wars but hate the prequels? Ever wish someone came up with a decent story about how a decadent galactic commonwealth descended into chaos and civil war? Look no further.
    A proud player of 2nd edition 40k.

  17. #17
    Chapter Master Lost Egg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Wandering in the wilderness...
    Posts
    2,660

    Re: Old World will Officially live again!

    Indeed, though at least the Lizardman range has changed little so they could easily be added to WoW.

    I look forward to seeing an update with something a bit more solid.
    Last edited by Lost Egg; 17-11-2019 at 18:14.

  18. #18
    Chapter Master Urgat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Paris
    Posts
    19,564

    Re: Old World will Officially live again!

    Depending on how far you consider the Old World to be covering, the lizards could go on Albion, no need for Lustria, to be honest. I can't see how they'd handle bretonnians, though, if they went that far west. My bet is no LM, at least not at the beginning. Or they'll just adapt the lore. My bet is a kind of square map with Athel Loren in the bottom left corner, up to the Northen wastes in the top right corner. So empire in the middle, elves in one corner, chaos in the opposite one, dwarfs and night gobs going south from there, down to northern Badland greenskins. Drop a bit of skavens and beasts around, and you're covered for a solid basis. Got all the fantasy race fancies covered (humans, dwarfs, elves, greenskins, skavens, all manners of chaos). Can cover new ground and species with new books if it sells well, otherwise, well, it's really not much investment, the minis are still there and, orcs and common gobs aside, all still in production (for now).
    Last edited by Urgat; 17-11-2019 at 18:56.

  19. #19
    Chapter Master Little Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    2,593

    Re: Old World will Officially live again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Urgat View Post
    Depending on how far you consider the Old World to be covering, the lizards could go on Albion, no need for Lustria, to be honest. I can't see how they'd handle bretonnians, though, if they went that far west. My bet is no LM, at least not at the beginning. Or they'll just adapt the lore. My bet is a kind of square map with Athel Loren in the bottom left corner, up to the Northen wastes in the top right corner. So empire in the middle, elves in one corner, chaos in the opposite one, dwarfs and night gobs going south from there, down to northern Badland greenskins. Drop a bit of skavens and beasts around, and you're covered for a solid basis. Got all the fantasy race fancies covered (humans, dwarfs, elves, greenskins, skavens, all manners of chaos). Can cover new ground and species with new books if it sells well, otherwise, well, it's really not much investment, the minis are still there and, orcs and common gobs aside, all still in production (for now).
    Elves and dwarves still available to build old world armies?

    I think many are wishing for something that is insanely expensive, requires huge amounts of production slots and warehousing GW does not have and Brexit make shard to acquire. I would not mind if it happened, but it is not realistic.

    Also any re-release involved a scale change and "updated" rules. I think you and many will be very disappointed.

    EDIT: not meant grumpy or in a negative way.
    Last edited by Little Joe; 17-11-2019 at 19:11.
    my general project thread

    [2020] painted: 0

  20. #20
    Chapter Master Lost Egg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Wandering in the wilderness...
    Posts
    2,660

    Re: Old World will Officially live again!

    With the more generic factions I can see them ramping up the unique factor...or just avoid them at least for the time being.

    I've watched a few videos of people discussing WoW and there seems to be quite a range of expectations...I suspect people are going to have to moderate their wish-listing or there will be a lot of disappointment.

Page 1 of 9 1 2 3 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •