Warhammer 9th edition

[Rogue]

For about 24 hours last month, I had made up my mind to get "current" in 40k, but it just seems too daunting. My army is built for 2nd ed. and though I continue to add to my armies, I most use out of print models, which often are very cheap. Trying to make that fit the current look and feel is probably a non-starter (and GW wants it that way).

On the plus side, things are looking up for a potential game in my chose edition, which is nice.

Certainly it is a plus side to get a game in on your preferred edition. I am sure that a bat rep on here would be appreciated.(hint hint) Likewise, ClassicHammer(link in my sig) would definitely appreciate it as well. It certainly is a bigger leap from 2nd to the current edition than say 5th, but I have seen people do it. Look and feel is one thing, actual function is another, and I have yet to see someone turn their nose on a well painted classic army in this hobby.

[Commissar von Toussaint]

It certainly is a bigger leap from 2nd to the current edition than say 5th, but I have seen people do it. Look and feel is one thing, actual function is another, and I have yet to see someone turn their nose on a well painted classic army in this hobby.

One of the big issues is that GW has seriously jacked around the fluff. I see all this stuff about "Primaris" this and that. Even back in 4th, the weapons were being altered so that earlier versions would be indecipherable to later players.

The size of the figures also continues to increase, further complicating backwards compatibility.

All of which was by design.

Obviously, since I'm still here, and an old timer, I'll be sharing my experiences.

As a teaser, I've been doing massive work bringing my long-neglected forces up to speed. My Eldar army is bigger than I thought it was - comfortably above 3,000 points without any characters or weapon options. It is entirely non-GW in composition, being made up of a grab-bag of VOID figures bought on clearance and some scratch-built vehicles and weapon platforms. More of these are under construction.

Their opponents will be the Tyranids, which is very much old-school in its look and feel. Funny how OOP carnifexes and hive tyrants (let alone genestealers) are so cheap these days! (Okay, they were cheap 2 years ago when I bought them. Everything's higher now.)

Anyway, the Hive Mind is in a frenzy of activity, ordering the entire force base-coated after years of inactivity. So it has been done. A genetic analysis has determined that "Buff" is the best color for claws, besting White, Deck Tan and Yellow-Green in the Tamiya palette. Mass reproduction will shortly take place.

Happiness is readying a 40k army for imminent action, and I've got two of them to work with, so I am doubly fortunate.

[Rogue]

I cannot stress to you how much I Loathe the "Primaris" addition to 40K. My theory is that Gee Dubs is trying to protect their IP from them loosing cases like GW V. Chapterhouse lawsuit again, and thus a newly named and sculped Space Marine was born. Once that was in place everything got the change hammer to fit into the new paradigm that GW wants and thus you have things like Rynn's world being invaded a second time, but this time with Daemons instead and these new marines being their saviors, among a whole bunch of ham fisted stories to make the cannon sort of work. Of course the apparent rule of GW is that "If you want something to sell make it awesome and kill everything on the table: If you don't want something to sell, let it languish" is in full effect these days. For me, I will be playing my Space Marines either in an edition that I can play them in, or I will be playing an older edition. Last time that I checked, they did not use magic erasing ink on my books, so they are in fully working order.

Totally right about the increase in size. You may have gotten away with taking your beakies from way back when, and add them to your models from the 4th or 5th, but those days are long gone.

Ironically Eldar and Tyranids are two of the most stable factions out there, and our friend on the board Captain Brown seems to be getting some use out of his older Eldar models located here:
https://www.warseer.com/forums/showt...ry-old-models)

Please do get some games in if you can, especially of an older edition. I always like to see a bat rep of them when possible.

[Commissar von Toussaint]

Of course the apparent rule of GW is that "If you want something to sell make it awesome and kill everything on the table: If you don't want something to sell, let it languish" is in full effect these days.

It's been that way for 20 years or so. The only edition where there seemed to be an effort to maintain parity was 2nd, which was of course incomplete. Everyone knew that a revision was necessary to streamline the rules, but no one expected GW to dump the baby down the drain along with the bath water.

The campaign I'm looking at is Eldar vs Tyranids. The Eldar are converted VOID figures; the Tyranids are super cheap 2nd ed. models no one (but me!) seems to want.

This week was a mess, but hoping to get rolling next week. I'll keep you posted.

[Rogue]

Whenever you can. In addition to posting here, feel free to copy and paste into www.classichammer.com as well. I happen to know the proprietor of the site.

[Commissar von Toussaint]

Tonight we did a small, 500 point battle. The scenario was an Tyranid scouting force testing the defenses of an Eldar outpost.

The army selections were ridiculously simple. The Eldar fielded 5 Dire Avengers, 5, Swooping Hawks and 3 Dark Reapers, all led by a Dire Avenger Exarch. I will note that this is technically in violation of the 2nd Ed. Eldar Codex, but it is completely consistent with the widely accepted reforms to 2nd Edition rules developed on Portent.

The Tyranid force was simplicity itself: two broods of genestealers, one with 7, the other with 8 models, plus a genestealer patriarch.

The Eldar mission was to Engage and Destroy; the Tyranids were using The Assassins (bonus points for killing leaders) mission card.

The battle went rather simply: the 'nids swarmed forward and - without the need to use cover - the Eldar dumped everything they could at them. In the end, the 'nids were wiped out at the cost of 2 Swooping Hawks.

This may seem a dull, uninspired scenario with obviously imbalanced forces, but it was in fact a "training game" to initiate a new player on game mechanics. In that respect it was fully successful. More to follow.

[Rogue]

Training games need to be done as well.

[Commissar von Toussaint]

Training games need to be done as well.

The first rule of getting someone into gaming (or back into gaming) is to let them win. If you curb-stomp them, it's harder to get them to come back.

An additional factor in my gaming philosophy is that I like to build a narrative campaign. Twenty years ago I would settle for pick-up games at the local shop, but now my spare time is more valuable.

That means not every game is a evenly-balanced engagement. In fact, most of our little campaigns start of with restrictions that fit the scenario. In this storyline, the Tyranids have just dropped on an Eldar-inhabited world and are trying to figure out who they are dealing with.

I enjoy those kinds of narratives. Some years ago we did a campaign where Chaos Marines made their first contact with Tyranids and it did not go well for them at all. In most 'normal' games, you don't do stupid stuff like attack clearly superior troops in close combat, but how would guys stuck in the warp for centuries *know* they are superior?

Putting otherwise arbitrary (but dramatically consistent) constraints on the forces also makes it more interesting even if the games are technically fair.

I'm not sure what the next engagement will be, but it will be larger and a little more balanced.

[MadHatter]

Training games need to be done as well.

I found one of the best ways is to play team games. this gives a new player help and if they lose due to dice rolls it's not so brutal. And after the game, you have someone who was involved in the game who can share in the excitement of the game you all just played. If you are a good friend or just the like the new player you can let them borrow some of your own models to help balance their own forces.

[Commissar von Toussaint]

I found one of the best ways is to play team games. this gives a new player help and if they lose due to dice rolls it's not so brutal. And after the game, you have someone who was involved in the game who can share in the excitement of the game you all just played. If you are a good friend or just the like the new player you can let them borrow some of your own models to help balance their own forces.

I've tried the team approach in a variety if situations and it left me cold. The problem is that the new player either gets a quiet sector, or they get one that matters. In the former case, they don't do much, and in the latter case they don't want to be the one who loses the game, so have to ask for advice, which reduces them to remote control.

If there's a mega-game, I've found a better approach is having them be an "observer/referee." This lets them see everything that's going on, so they can sit with one side, hear their plans, then cross over to the other.

The nice thing is that while they have no forces, they know more about the game than anyone else, and are free to ask questions about mechanics, troop types and so on. To be clear, it's more than just a fly on the wall, or someone saying "hey guys, what's that?" and being allowed to watch - they are still a part of the experience. It's a good way to get a new player to experience a battle that would otherwise be beyond their grasp.

I freely admit that others may have different experience, but in the time and place where I got into gaming, the environment was very competitive, doubly so in dealing with GW games where the tournament mentality and WAAC philosophy were very prominent. Different areas may have a different vibe.

For that reason, I like the small one-on-one approach best because you can control the tempo or scope better - and also ensure that they win, which is important.

I'm old enough that winning is something of an afterthought. The important part is the social interaction and if I'm with a clearly inferior opponent, I'll experiment with high-risk strategies to keep things interesting or make moves that boost the story line but aren't necessarily wise.

Do I still do an old-fashioned curb-stomp? Sure, but only against people who deserve it.

[Commissar von Toussaint]

Our campaign had an "operational pause" as we dealt with various things like vacations and school getting ready to start.

I estimate we won't get playing for another week or so, partly because I want to get more painting and assembly done. My Eldar are mostly non-GW, but if GW stuff is cheap enough I'll use it. I've seen some inexpensive Vypers and Jet bikes on ebay, so I'd like to add them to the forces available.

The scenario is that having wiped out the 'nids, the Eldar are determined to see how big the infestation is. Accordingly a mobile force will press forward to seek out addition information. Mission Card in play will be Dawn Raid, which gives bonuses to intact vehicles and squads in the enemy deployment zone. Actual force mix will depend on what I can get, but the rule is that all Eldar forces need a base movement 8 or greater. This means grav tanks, jet bikes, reptile cavalry, swooping hawks and dreadnoughts are on the table. Since grav tanks can carry troops, they are also permitted.

The hive mind is in a bit of disarray after their defeat, and are scrambling to produce more advanced critters. Their goal is inflict casualties and protect their breeding chambers, so they will use Engage and Destroy. They are not permitted to use Support units because these are not yet available.

If the Eldar win, the bugs will mount a final stand - again without heavy support choices. If the bugs win, the Eldar will have to withstand the counterattack. The battle will decide how we implement these options.

[MadHatter]

that's fair. I cannot argue that we all have a different experiences. my problem is I worked for GW and had to run the intro games with the rule of 4s. and had to always lose to get them excited to buy the starter box. it would work for kids. but most of the adults were not that stupid. and on more than one occasion they called me and my co-workers out on it.