Warhammer 9th edition

[Thingol of Iyaden]

Rangers upgraded to pathfinder should be limited to 1/squad, "Kill" on 5-6 as opposed to 4-6, gain forward observer -2 to scatter roll (old), +2 to number of hits die per die (ie, 2d6+4 hits).

As I now have a garage to play in, March should bring warm enough temps to play, and over a month to recover from ostomey reversal surgery.

[Commissar von Toussaint]

I like being able to purchase/ outfit my troops to match their opponent (2nd ed.). The Force org chart in the big rulebook should only apply to space marines and IG, all others should have one tailored to them, and example would be the craft world eldar supplement for 3rd ed..

The org charts were a crutch to help with the inherent unit imbalances because the points system was broken. Maybe it still is, I don't know.

But your point is a good one and I liked the old narrative-driven style of gaming that was replaced by a more sterile "tournament prep" mentality.

Going to your previous post, GW will always roll dice whenever possible, and not only is it an annoying mechanic, it chews up time better spent actually playing the game.

Because it involves what seems like a trivial activity, it's easy to lose track of just home much time rolling dice can take, but I've seen a number of solutions to try to speed up dice-rolling and game play is measurably speeded up.

[MadHatter]

I left the game with the sixth edition. I am just getting back into the game with the ninth edition. while I would love to go back and play second or fourth editions, there are few players willing to do so.

[Commissar von Toussaint]

I left the game with the sixth edition. I am just getting back into the game with the ninth edition. while I would love to go back and play second or fourth editions, there are few players willing to do so.

I've found it depends on the presentation and circumstances. For example, it is possible to get new people directly into playing 2nd because its books are so available (along with the Battle Bible) and the entry cost is so much lower.

The chief difficulty in my area is the COVID restrictions. I don't mean the specific rules, but the fact that I live in a college town that is largely deserted and the gaming scene is dead.

[Thingol of Iyaden]

Happy New Year to All!

Throughly understand departing 6th ed after reading how all pistols were ruled (user str). If it had not been for escalation (and my owning a revenant). I really do miss the dangerous terrain rules.

[Commissar von Toussaint]

Happy New Year to All!

Throughly understand departing 6th ed after reading how all pistols were ruled (user str). If it had not been for escalation (and my owning a revenant). I really do miss the dangerous terrain rules.

It's interesting to note that while there was reference to terrain, no rules were quoted in that .pdf relating to game play effects.

Terrain is one area where GW has been all over the map (so to speak). In 2nd it was a must to avoid Western Desert-style tank duels dominating the game, but it got downplayed ever since. The whole armor save OR cover save thing was terrible.

Curious as to the system now. I like that armor saves mods came back, is it too much to ask for "to hit" modifiers as well?

[Thingol of Iyaden]

Mods to hit and saves has always been my favorite way to handle it. However this time around what GW holds as terrain is very different from the past. Rivers, woods, 1 inch tall hills equal zero effect on game play. "Real (GW) terrain has traits like defensible, breachable, scalable, light cover. The terrain cards actually fall into tactical terrain and terrain(for narrative play), both have picture, description, category (ie area terrain feature), traits (as mentioned earlier), with tactical having a point cost (example 40 terrain points), and ability(ies). So their are 2 cards for each terrain feature. If you spend 40 pts for tactical with ammo storage abilities: reroll "1"s to hit, and half the models of a unit can throw grenades in the shooting phase, but for narrative play. You get all the fore mentioned plus resupply (if your infantry owns the feature, one of your vehicles can reload and shoot a once a game weapon again like IG/space marine hunter-killer missile. As not all factions have one shot weapons and not having to pay points for....Egads!!!

[Commissar von Toussaint]

Mods to hit and saves has always been my favorite way to handle it.

Agreed. It should go without saying that modifiers work best because they scale probability better than either/or systems. They also capture the truth that a guy wearing power armor behind a stone wall benefits from both.

However this time around what GW holds as terrain is very different from the past. Rivers, woods, 1 inch tall hills equal zero effect on game play. "Real (GW) terrain has traits like defensible, breachable, scalable, light cover. The terrain cards actually fall into tactical terrain and terrain(for narrative play), both have picture, description, category (ie area terrain feature), traits (as mentioned earlier), with tactical having a point cost (example 40 terrain points), and ability(ies). So their are 2 cards for each terrain feature. If you spend 40 pts for tactical with ammo storage abilities: reroll "1"s to hit, and half the models of a unit can throw grenades in the shooting phase, but for narrative play. You get all the fore mentioned plus resupply (if your infantry owns the feature, one of your vehicles can reload and shoot a once a game weapon again like IG/space marine hunter-killer missile. As not all factions have one shot weapons and not having to pay points for....Egads!!!

GW seems to have a thing with weird terrain rules. The irony is that I got into 40k in large part because I loved the cluttered battlefields, particularly the hive city set-ups. The notion of having jump troops sweep along rooftops while tanks pound it out in the alleys below captivated me. In fact, it still does.

The open-field emphasis of 3/4 Edition was a big part of what drove me away. My cool urban nightmare terrain was basically useless. City Fight tried to fix it, but the notion of having to do a supplement for what I considered a core part the game just grated on me.

GW also has this weird notion of using terrain as a bargaining chip. How about setting up a battlefield that's fun to play over? The old "one guy sets up, the other picks which side he gets" works great in most applications. Paying points is just weird, and reminds me of the old Herohammer "competitive terrain placement" strategy advice.

[MadHatter]

I hate the pay points for terrain. Use it for objective for the mission would have been a better idea. I agree modifiers for both hit and Armor Piercing should be part of the terrain features.

Cities of Death rules made the game so much better. I am still not a fan of the 9th edition rules. but my area is mostly hooked on playing the current rules.

[Commissar von Toussaint]

I hate the pay points for terrain. Use it for objective for the mission would have been a better idea. I agree modifiers for both hit and Armor Piercing should be part of the terrain features.

Cities of Death rules made the game so much better. I am still not a fan of the 9th edition rules. but my area is mostly hooked on playing the current rules.

There's a big difference between "sub-optimal" and "objectively awful."

You can tolerate and even enjoy some of the former but the latter is unplayable. Warhammer 5th Ed. in its final, ultra-cheesy, beard-wearing incarnation fell into the second category. I reached the point where I was turning down gaming invites because laundry was more enjoyable.

Similarly, 3/4 ed. 40k achieved a level of counter-intuitive tactics that made me loathe it.

If 9th ed. 40k reaches the same plateau that 6th edition Fantasy did - flawed, but workable - I can see people getting back into it, particularly if they've got usable armies on hand.

[Thingol of Iyaden]

My protest is the constant support given to IG/space marines via terrain. In my last post note the reuse of one shot weapons- the only weapon that fits in eldar/Harlequin use is a star bola. Which is used from a jetbike! Jetbike units can't sit for a turn to rearm, lest we forget the star bola is used up close & personnel. Please note not all xeno armies have one shot weapons, although the orks have several. It's annoying that most of the terrain pieces sold by GW (not to mention the the whole wall of martyrs series) benefit only one race (even if they 30 flavors).
GW has dabbled with the tau gunline and some (mostly forgeworld) stuff. However, as some one who has gamed the 1939-40 Russo-Finnish war and 1944-5 polish front negotiating over terrain features and their deployment is rather common. All races have a need for fortifications and terrain features that can compliment one another, or rather in a campaign setting fortifications will be sited in complimentary terrain features. Which is where part of GW's "narrative style" comes from.

[Commissar von Toussaint]

My protest is the constant support given to IG/space marines via terrain. In my last post note the reuse of one shot weapons- the only weapon that fits in eldar/Harlequin use is a star bola. Which is used from a jetbike! Jetbike units can't sit for a turn to rearm, lest we forget the star bola is used up close & personnel. Please note not all xeno armies have one shot weapons, although the orks have several. It's annoying that most of the terrain pieces sold by GW (not to mention the the whole wall of martyrs series) benefit only one race (even if they 30 flavors).

That's interesting. The old story was that GW's favorite army (or should I write "favourite"?) was whatever they were pushing that month. The Imperium always had a prime position of course because they fought all comers (including their own side), which is great for sales. Can't have everybody collecting Dark Eldar and then wondering why everything's a civil war all of a sudden.

But to your point, yes, GW picks winners and losers and always had. I recall during 5th Edition Fantasy Chaos Warriors could win the game before it actually started! (Old timers know I do not exaggerate.)

For veteran 40k players, each edition new edition brings up a series of questions:

Is the imbalance of the new game within tolerable limits? (A balanced game is out of the question with GW.)
How expensive are all the supplements to get a minimum amount of armies back into use?
How much retrofitting will existing armies need? How much will it cost?

[Gen.Steiner]

I've got my hands on the rulebook recently, and am blown away by the production values of it. I really like the look of the Crusade concept, and will probably pick up the Codexes (only) as they are released. I'm not hugely interested in the Warzone stuff, but as my most likely opponents are going to be playing 9th I reckon I'll be buying into it.

Still mostly playing 4th and 2nd edition though!

[Rogue]

I've got my hands on the rulebook recently, and am blown away by the production values of it. I really like the look of the Crusade concept, and will probably pick up the Codexes (only) as they are released. I'm not hugely interested in the Warzone stuff, but as my most likely opponents are going to be playing 9th I reckon I'll be buying into it.

Still mostly playing 4th and 2nd edition though!

How is that going for you? The 4th and 2nd edition is of some interest to me. I would be interested in a bat-rep should you get one up somewhere. My current preference is for 5th,(with some house rules) but that is more due to what I am familiar with as that is where I started.

[Gen.Steiner]

I had a game with my son the other day to introduce him to 4th and dust the cobwebs off me after a good long while of not really playing. 2nd is even more intermittent, but I've played 4th and 2nd more than I have 8th and certainly more than 9th!

[Commissar von Toussaint]

I had a game with my son the other day to introduce him to 4th and dust the cobwebs off me after a good long while of not really playing. 2nd is even more intermittent, but I've played 4th and 2nd more than I have 8th and certainly more than 9th!

I'd love to get a game in. Sadly, it's not likely for the foreseeable future.

[MadHatter]

I've got my hands on the rulebook recently, and am blown away by the production values of it. I really like the look of the Crusade concept, and will probably pick up the Codexes (only) as they are released. I'm not hugely interested in the Warzone stuff, but as my most likely opponents are going to be playing 9th I reckon I'll be buying into it.

Still mostly playing 4th and 2nd edition though!

Those are my preferred editions as well. 2nd maybe more nostalgia now. But I do remember having the most fun with those editions.

[MadHatter]

So how are you guys faring in the 9th edition? It's been some months. Anyone change their minds on its playability?

Personally, I am still not a fan of the terrain. especially since my area is really hooked on the tournament layout. I have one opponent who is cool with actually setting up a dense table. but everyone else is purely as minimal as possible. and they do not get why I sigh. As an Aeldari player, I rely on the cover. so does my friend with the Tyranids.

I am not a fan of the core book rule layout either. why not just have all the dam rules in one section. no need to spread them out. it makes finding rules difficult during the game. so unless your willing to concede the point, you have to know the exact page its on or stop the game while you find it.

i have 1 victory out of a dozen games. not bad in my mind. not great either. but I generally have fun.

[Rogue]

I have not been out to get a game yet. For starters I am painting a lot of my army right now from years ago, so I am focusing on that. Hopefully, I will not have another setback like I did where I had a stray brush ruin a squad. Secondly, there is still a lot of stores that are not exactly open. For instance, all of the GW stores are not open for gaming in my area. I have a few FLGS's open for normal gaming and it is starting to get back to where you can get a pickup game. I think that I also need to get a current codex as well.

[Commissar von Toussaint]

I have not been out to get a game yet. For starters I am painting a lot of my army right now from years ago, so I am focusing on that. Hopefully, I will not have another setback like I did where I had a stray brush ruin a squad. Secondly, there is still a lot of stores that are not exactly open. For instance, all of the GW stores are not open for gaming in my area. I have a few FLGS's open for normal gaming and it is starting to get back to where you can get a pickup game. I think that I also need to get a current codex as well.

For about 24 hours last month, I had made up my mind to get "current" in 40k, but it just seems too daunting. My army is built for 2nd ed. and though I continue to add to my armies, I most use out of print models, which often are very cheap. Trying to make that fit the current look and feel is probably a non-starter (and GW wants it that way).

On the plus side, things are looking up for a potential game in my chose edition, which is nice.