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  1. #1
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    orcs and goblins tactica.

    I've just had my first game with the new edition of greenskins and I must say they are much more competitive and faster. I only got a draw against the pesky woodies so I thought I'd get some tips from here.

    I'll start us with the power of the waaaagh turn. When do you find it to be most effective and sneaky.
    I'll have to disagree.

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    Chapter Master MadJackMcJack's Avatar
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    Re: orcs and goblins tactica.

    The WAAAAGH! is best used when your opponent has moved his units to just outside your charge range. He's there sitting pretty and thinking that his units are safe, and then WHAM! Most of your units get a speed boost and his plans are ruined (as are the faces of his units). So long as you use it when the maximum amount of units are going to benefit, it ain't wasted.
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    Chapter Master Karhedron's Avatar
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    Re: orcs and goblins tactica.

    MadJackMcJack is right on the money with this one. There is no point in saying an arbitary turn like the 3rd turn is the best to Waaagh as it will depend in a large part on what your opponent is doing.

    Against woodies, plenty of basic infantry is good for starters, then you need something to counter the WE mobility. Spider Riders are very nice in this regard, there is nothing like the look on your opponent's face when your unit suddenly moves 14" through the wood he though was protecting him.

    Skirmishing squig hoppers are also quite nice as the -1 to hit will at least slightly hamper WE archery. The magic squig pipes (sorry, forgot the name) that cause cavalry to take a panic test can be handy too as WEs often rely on several small units og glade riders and the like.

    I don't know WEs too well in detail (I have only fought them once) but a Wyvern or Giant may be worth considering. Although they are large targets, they are still T5 against shooting that is mainly T3 (plus the Wyvern gets a 4+ scaly save). The terror that these guys can sow amongst many small units is often very effective.

    As for Magic, spells like Gorks warpath that do not require LOS can be very useful as can the movement boosting spells. Magic missiles also work a treat for thinning out dangerous skirmishers like war dancers.
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    Re: orcs and goblins tactica.

    Okay the waaagh thing is settled; when it benefits the most units. Perhaps we could now discuss unit sizes.
    I'll have to disagree.

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    Veteran Sergeant policy-boy's Avatar
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    Re: orcs and goblins tactica.

    for orc boys i tend to find that 6 wide, and either 4 or 5 ranks deep depending on the level of missile fire works well as it maximises potential in combat, plus it's a large wedge of orcs which other generals find far more intimidating than just 5 wide. Goblin wise I havent used them too much, but i should imagine that 5 ranks of 5 is best, as they can soak up a bit of missile fire and still get the rank bonus, also you dont need to worry about maximising goblins combat potential, as, lets face it, they're craptacular at combat! also having 25 mean they fit nicely into the textured movement bases, no need to widen them

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    Veteran Sergeant tangerinealtoid's Avatar
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    Re: orcs and goblins tactica.

    Quote Originally Posted by policy-boy View Post
    for orc boys i tend to find that 6 wide, and either 4 or 5 ranks deep depending on the level of missile fire works well as it maximises potential in combat, plus it's a large wedge of orcs which other generals find far more intimidating than just 5 wide. Goblin wise I havent used them too much, but i should imagine that 5 ranks of 5 is best, as they can soak up a bit of missile fire and still get the rank bonus, also you dont need to worry about maximising goblins combat potential, as, lets face it, they're craptacular at combat! also having 25 mean they fit nicely into the textured movement bases, no need to widen them
    So, here's an issue I haven't seen anyone touch on yet: if you put your Orc hero or general on a boar in the first rank of a unit, and if your unit is only 5 wide, doesn't that screw up the rank behind, since there would only be 4 orcs in the 2nd rank, due to the size of the boar base? And, do you get around this by having a unit size of 6 wide? This would mean that you'd have a 2nd rank that is only 5 wide, but that is still wide enough to count as a rank.

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    Re: orcs and goblins tactica.

    Quote Originally Posted by tangerinealtoid View Post
    So, here's an issue I haven't seen anyone touch on yet: if you put your Orc hero or general on a boar in the first rank of a unit, and if your unit is only 5 wide, doesn't that screw up the rank behind, since there would only be 4 orcs in the 2nd rank, due to the size of the boar base? And, do you get around this by having a unit size of 6 wide? This would mean that you'd have a 2nd rank that is only 5 wide, but that is still wide enough to count as a rank.
    I always thought if you joined an infantry unit with a mounted charaachter you just put the char on the side of the unit, without pushing it inside. It just seems messy to squeese him in there, especially if the inf unit should have narrower bases than the char (like if a mounted empire general would join a unit of empire infantry or so).
    Maybe I just got this thing all wrong...?

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    Re: orcs and goblins tactica.

    I want to do a Night Goblin army, any suggestions?

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    Librarian woytek's Avatar
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    Re: orcs and goblins tactica.

    I'm currently thinking about doing all my orcs 6 wide and 4/5 long. This makes units of 24 and 30 and will always outnumber, got ranks and lots of attacks. Only dissadvantage I see with 6*4 is that you will loose your rank with 2 casualties, but since ranks are counted before combat that's not a very big problem.

    Right now I am doubting between fielding a large black orc unit which will totally destroy all units in the game with support units or just place a bunch of 24 counting orc units with choppa-shield or additional choppa... I'm afraid normal orcs will just fail in combat...
    And Gorbad will rule

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    Veteran Sergeant policy-boy's Avatar
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    Re: orcs and goblins tactica.

    you could try both, have a unit of about 20 black orcs supported by 2 or 3 large orc boy units. however this could cost alot

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    Librarian Snotteef's Avatar
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    Re: orcs and goblins tactica.

    I definitely see the benefit of going 6 wide now that everyone else will be at least 5 wide. Does anyone forsee problems with such a wide frontage? Orcs do use the larger base size; how will this affect maneuverability and deployment?
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    Librarian woytek's Avatar
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    Re: orcs and goblins tactica.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snotteef View Post
    I definitely see the benefit of going 6 wide now that everyone else will be at least 5 wide. Does anyone forsee problems with such a wide frontage? Orcs do use the larger base size; how will this affect maneuverability and deployment?

    Get a bigger table... But you are actually right, there might be some problems manouvering if you choose to field orcs only, but especially with the new rules orcs can field very nice hard hitting units, so why not field them? Only orcs won't break units too often and won't win you games, unless someone gives me some arguments they will!
    And Gorbad will rule

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    Re: orcs and goblins tactica.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snotteef View Post
    I definitely see the benefit of going 6 wide now that everyone else will be at least 5 wide. Does anyone forsee problems with such a wide frontage? Orcs do use the larger base size; how will this affect maneuverability and deployment?
    Going 6 wide works great against other 25mm bases. But like others said, maneuverability will be a huge issue.

  14. #14
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    Re: orcs and goblins tactica.

    I find the six wide, five deep to be effective. Black orcs are quite good with only fifteen. Now what should we arm our orcs with now. Your thoughts.
    I'll have to disagree.

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    Brother Sergeant Grimor Da Warchife's Avatar
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    Re: orcs and goblins tactica.

    has some body used the new squig herd as a squig bomb i was thinking of takeing a smal 2 herders 3 squig unit and sendit towards the enemy as my gaming grup dont know the new rules yet it maight work only thing a have to to is to get them in a gombat with the unit that braks them not kills them all

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    Chapter Master Avian's Avatar
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    Re: orcs and goblins tactica.

    I cobbled together a little scrips where you can compare Orc Boyz Performance.

    Personally I field three units of 30 (5 wide), one with choppa and shield, one with two choppas and one with spear and shield. They are more or less equal and cost more or less the same, so I like the variation.
    As a long-time Goblin player, I can reliably inform you that failure is ALWAYS an option.

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    Librarian woytek's Avatar
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    Re: orcs and goblins tactica.

    Quote Originally Posted by wingedserpant View Post
    I find the six wide, five deep to be effective. Black orcs are quite good with only fifteen. Now what should we arm our orcs with now. Your thoughts.
    True, 30 orcs would work best, but do cost a bit more. But why would you take fifteen black orcs? They lack attack and they really need their ranks and outnumber like all orcs do, they're pretty cheap at 13 points where other armies might have to play double the cost!

    I made this unit:

    26 black orcs - command; war banner @ 401 pts.

    o Black Orc Warboss - heavy armour; shield; boar; Battleaxe of the Last Waaagh! @ 278

    o Black Orc Big Boss - heavy armour; boar; army banner; Nogg's banner of Butchery @ 155 pts.

    This makes me a unit with a static CR of: 3 ranks + banner + army banner + war banner + outnumber = 7 and a warboss in it with 8 strenght 8 attacks.... auto break anyone don't you say?
    And Gorbad will rule

  18. #18
    Chapter Master Latro's Avatar
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    Re: orcs and goblins tactica.

    Quote Originally Posted by woytek View Post
    I made this unit:

    26 black orcs - command; war banner @ 401 pts.

    o Black Orc Warboss - heavy armour; shield; boar; Battleaxe of the Last Waaagh! @ 278

    o Black Orc Big Boss - heavy armour; boar; army banner; Nogg's banner of Butchery @ 155 pts.

    This makes me a unit with a static CR of: 3 ranks + banner + army banner + war banner + outnumber = 7 and a warboss in it with 8 strenght 8 attacks.... auto break anyone don't you say?
    ... it only takes a 30 pts Warhound unit to keep this 800+ pts unit occupied for 2 turns (one charging and one turning back to the action due to diverting). Meanwhile you only have 1100-1200 pts left to deal with my whole army.

    Which is basicly the reason why super-elite-killer-units-of-DOOM (no matter which race they are from) rarely work.
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    Re: orcs and goblins tactica.

    Quote Originally Posted by woytek View Post
    True, 30 orcs would work best, but do cost a bit more. But why would you take fifteen black orcs? They lack attack and they really need their ranks and outnumber like all orcs do, they're pretty cheap at 13 points where other armies might have to play double the cost!

    I made this unit:

    26 black orcs - command; war banner @ 401 pts.

    o Black Orc Warboss - heavy armour; shield; boar; Battleaxe of the Last Waaagh! @ 278

    o Black Orc Big Boss - heavy armour; boar; army banner; Nogg's banner of Butchery @ 155 pts.

    This makes me a unit with a static CR of: 3 ranks + banner + army banner + war banner + outnumber = 7 and a warboss in it with 8 strenght 8 attacks.... auto break anyone don't you say?
    Black orcs are support units in my book. 15 worked well for me. I don't go higher than 20 though. Your unit would be overkill and your ranks will go down too fast therefore losing you those battleaxe attacks.
    I'll have to disagree.

    Wingedserpant

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  20. #20
    Commander GrogsnotPowwabomba's Avatar
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    Re: orcs and goblins tactica.

    Quote Originally Posted by woytek View Post
    But why would you take fifteen black orcs? They lack attack...
    Black Orcs lack attack?? They can hit with 2 S5 attacks in the first round of the fight, or you can play it safe and hit with only 1 S5 attack. Bottom line, its S5!!!
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