Why is Warmaster dead?

[Woudschim]

Thing about WarMaster players is they're almost all 'closet' players, because they all believe no-one else plays it. I'm frankly shocked at the number of WarMaster-capable players I've got locally.
Go figure

I encountered the same thing, if GW would support the specialist-games more, there should be more playing of them. I'm sure most of the kids these days don't even know about them, the ones that do know think nobody is playing them.

[Mister Hat]

Anyways, I play Mortal Chaos, how about you? I've got a saround 1.5K pts painted, another 2-3K pts in blisters waiting for some love and attention. heavily Khornate themed btw...

I am in a very similar position here in the UK. I have around 3000pts of painted Khorne Mortals, 3000pts of unpainted empire and literally NO opponents. I am in a fairly busy club, but no-one seems in the least bit interested in starting.

This is a shame because WM is one of GWs best systems for tactical play. You really need to think and plan ahead.

I am going to keep banging on about it, though. Sooner or later someone will cave in, right?

[Woudschim]

I very much hope so, is there really no-one interested?

I like Warmaster indeed for the planning it requires, "shall I move brigade A twice for advantage X, but risking a failed command and not being able to move brigade B to protect A's flank, or must I move Brigade C first," lovely.

Have you tried bringing your armies, plonking them on the table and inviting others to learn and play?

[Lord Lucifer]

Two games of it played in my games room today. Conclusion? Elves must die


I've got my work cut out for me with Orcs

[Woudschim]

Dark elves or High elves?

I never played with or against high elves, but I've lost only one battle using my dark elves (1000 points, due to a very bad dice roll)

I think my girlfriend really likes dark elves now...

[Lord Lucifer]

High Elves. Reaper Bolt Throwers hitting on 3+ are just nasty. Especially with two units sitting point-blank with a pair of High Mages casting Heaven's Fire so they get to shoot twice per magic phase.
My poor Giant never stood a chance

I'm starting to be bitter about Orc Generals. 95 points for Ld8, you can boost it up with a Crown of Command, but that's just for one test per round. They end being more expensive and less effective than elven generals.
Grrrr, bitter

[Woudschim]

Just remember that orcs have the very best leadership around, if you know how to use them.

If you play 2000 points, you can have 5 Ld 8 characters, and another 6 Ld 7 charachers, two of them being able to cast magic as well, and another 2 goblin shamans.

That means you can break up your army into small blocks, instead of moving brigades of four units around, try using two units together, if the command fails, you can have another go with another character and the other 2 units

And their magic rocks, fielding 4 magic caster means you can always get some spells through, and you are able to threat the opponents army from more sides, I always use two or three shamans together, to be able to get the spells through. And just threatening your opponent with magic means you can dictate his movement, something that's very important of course! unfortunately orcs do not have much firepower to support the magic, I never take stone throwers, you can buy 2 orc units and a goblin unit instead of 4 throwers.

And use your goblins as screens, putting them forward so they will be regarded as the closest target, forcing your opponent to shoot them, hopefully he doesn't shoot the whole unit apart, then leave the goblins for what they are, and your opponent can only claim 15 measly victory points. Other nice things to do is luring frenzied troops away with wolfriders, but HE don't have frenzied troops..

And, if your opponent focusses his fire like he did, that means that there is a big weakness somewhere else, you've got the advantage of outnumbering, so you can use a part of your army to exploit that weakness, thereby using the giant as bait.

I hope this helps, I play Orcs and goblins as well, and they are a difficult army.

Oh, and another thing, don't ever put your trolls in a forest, but I guess you figured that out already

Greetings!

[Lord Lucifer]

Yeah yeah yeah, I've read the Orc tactica on the Specialist Games site too

Sorry, your advice was almost verbatim

The problem with this 'wealth of leadership' is it renders the rest of the army destitute when it comes to points. I can take the bucketload of Ld8 commanders, but filling out those character slots weighs in at 745 points.
And that's without picking up anything handy like the Sword of Might, Crown of Command, or a Wyvern or two.

Every point counts.

[Woudschim]

In 2000 points, I take two orc heroes, 3 goblin heroes, and three shamen. Which works fair enough. I lost only once :P

I make brigades of three or two units, always including a goblin unit. It is very easy to attack both the front and the flank of the enemy. my main tactic is forcing a break in the crucial parts of the enemy, and of course a good general will guard this part just as good, and that's where the threatening comes in, If I can't break his army there, He will pay for it dearly in another part of is army.

[Lord Lucifer]

My problem was running into a Elven gunline whilst half my combat capability faltered on the startingline, whilst the Giant was the only one that ended up advancing into range.

Then crucially, all command tests failed, leaving minimal sections of my army to attempt to win the game on initiative, only to run headlong into a dragon, and a heckuvalotta bad dice.

I'll get that elf yet, though. He'll get what's coming to him

[Woudschim]

Ah, bad dice rolls

I wish you good luck on your next elf-mashing-fest!

[Lord Lucifer]

Next elf-mashing will involve four Shamans and more units.
The longer it takes to hit Break Point the longer I have to turn those four attacks per stand into a bunch of dead elves.
I just need to ensure I can get enough troops into the thick of it as soon as I can.

[Red Skullz]

I haven`t played WM yet but I have been recruiting gamers for many years now with great success to WHFB, 40K, BB & Necro.

The trick is simple. You start off first, show off your minis, talk about the rules, setting, etc. When you get someone interested set it all in a narrative setting from the start. Arrange matches weekly or whatever fits best, get those who are interested in miniature wargaming over just to watch you play, lend out books and well eventually it will catch on

For example. I wanted to play 40K but everyone else in my group only wanted to play WHFB. I took a "risk" and aimed myself at a 400 pts ork (mini)horde, talked a lot about it, showed off my minis and those available and suddenly we where two players. I then set it all in a narrative setting with the classic good vs evil and we started pulling more players into it. I registered the results mailing it to everyone + some more people and now our main game in the group is 40K
I think the key elements where, start off small, narrative with a story people easily can relate to and force players to play scenarios that are related to the results/narrative.

Hope that helps, WM might be my way back into fantasy wargaming so I`ll be watching this forum a bit more closely

R

[Woudschim]

The problem is that I don't play warhammer, so I don't have a gaming group with a supply of would-be-warmaster players

Me and my girlfriend often play in independent gaming-stores though, and often we get some attention from the other gamers there.

I will be expanding my dark elf army soon by the way, from 1300 to 2000 points, and my girlfriend will also expand from 1600 dwarfs to 2000, we will then have better advertising material

Until now, we played 1500 points, or 2000 orcs vs 1500 dwarves + 500 empire

[wreiro]

Ah, bad dice rolls

I wish you good luck on your next elf-mashing-fest!

I was told in no uncertain terms that I was not allowed to use my HE in my gaming group after I halved a 2000pt empire army and only gave away half an eagles unit worth of victory points. I just had to start using my other armies instead!

WM is a great game, it is far and away the best game GW have produced.

Just one more point I think Beastmen would make a great horde army for WM. On the table top an army would look great painted as a single warband or as a few warbands brought together under one very powerful warlord.

[DarthIbis]

I was told in no uncertain terms that I was not allowed to use my HE in my gaming group

Why?
Not being a stats junkie, I couldn't say for sure that they are "overpowered" but if that's not the case, it sounds like your associates are just whiners if they won't let you field a legit army that doesn't break any standard rules.

[Woudschim]

I once won a battle losing only two stands (from two different units!)

No army is overpowered though.

Warmaster is indeed the best game GW ever made.

I got my mail order in today, my dark elf army is upgraded to 2000 points!

the army list:

general - sceptre of sovereignty
2 heroes
sorceress on manticore with sword of might, she will be a mobile, spellcasting, terrorcausing combat monster

6 warriors,
4 crossbowmen
4 dark riders
2 cold ones
2 bolt throwers

and one odd unit of witch elves with a sword of fate, I am pondering about them,.. I plan to use my army in the following blocks:

2x two regiments of warriors + crossbowmen
2x warriors, bolt thrower and crossbowmen
2x two units dark riders
1x cold ones

The witch elves don't fit with anything, maybe one of the warrior/crossbow regiments, but it ruins the symmetry in the army, something that I have used with great effect. A unit of harpies is not an option, since I want a tight command, a unit of harpies is just another unit to command, and possibly fail to command, something I do not want to happen. I am thinking of removing them altogether, and just play with 1925 points, maybe with some extra magic item. I feel they are just going to be an obstacle.

[wreiro]

Why?
Not being a stats junkie, I couldn't say for sure that they are "overpowered" but if that's not the case, it sounds like your associates are just whiners if they won't let you field a legit army that doesn't break any standard rules.

I was playing when the rules came out so their magic was brilliant, their shooting is great, their ld is high and they came get loads of silverhelm and chariots. No other army has the large choice of troops, which aren't that expensive in points.

My battle line of troops would regularly move from the deployment zone to the mid line of the field and wait for the cavalry to romp down a flank with a mage in tow to offer some magical offence as well.

Also they are a bunch of whinners!!!

[Lord Lucifer]

Yeah, Elves can be nasty.
Their archers are accurate as hell, and fight every inch as well as Imperial Halberdiers.
Their basic line infantry, Spearmen, have decent saves for a decent cost.
The abundance of Silver Helms and Reaver Cavalry make them fast, and those Silver Helms are durable to a frustrating degree.
Then you chuck a dragon into the unit to make it steamroll anything with a pulse

And those bolt throwers are just nasty. Get the damn point-eared Mage to cast the spell that allows them to shoot again, and your second mage next to your second Bolt Thrower unit...

Advancing on an Elf army hurts like hell.

[Woudschim]

A nice dark rider attack and a cold one charge will teach them.

bastards!

Today I bought a ..silly amount of warmaster, for an even sillyer amount of money, all new, in blisters, about 50 units, for a about 70 euro's, absurd really, a lot of orcs, chaos, empire, kislev, lizardmen, dwarves. Great deal!